Live data from Hacker News

The real cost of owning a home

ericturner.dev

251–260 of 901 posts

Re: The real cost of owning a home

#251

The article details costs and leaves two big ones out. First, opportunity cost: lot of folks rent instead of own on the basis of keeping assets in higher-performing market sectors. Second (and perhaps actually an expression of the first), anything that prevents a working professional from changing cities can exert downward pressure on future economic opportunity.

Maybe 1% of renters do that. The rest can't afford a house.

Changing cities? Sell or rent out your house. Not harder than moving apartments.

Re: The real cost of owning a home

#252

The benefit of owning a home is almost always psychological, not financial. If you take the money you'd use for a down payment and mortgage and invest it instead (after paying rent) you end up in about the same place. But the psychological benefits can be huge. You have much greater control over the place you spend most of your time. You can change it to your liking. You don't have to worry about rent increases or ow…

Neighbors of owned-properties: - care about the long-term effects of their actions - care about the plan of their surroundings - plan to stick around This is a HUGE part of the psychological benefit you refer to of buying. Notably this is equally applicable to any occupant-owned property (e.g. condos > apartments).

Can attest to this, living on a street which each year sees houses sold off to landlords, and now there are very few of us occupying-owners left.

The renters all have rubbish in their front and back yard, have more pets that they let bark and poo everywhere, smoke weed etc.

Re: The real cost of owning a home

#253
You come out ahead with home ownership if you buy the right-sized home and stay there. Homes almost always offer more space and utility for less than rent would, assuming the rental even allows you to do what you want to do with your home or at your home.

Staying put reduces the time and money you spend on borrowing, closing and moving, but most importantly, it keeps you from lifestyle inflation that is the biggest financial risk to homeowners or renters.

These are the dynamics in most of the United States in the broadest age range. They only break down a bit at the extreme low end (rooming with a bunch of people) and in the most expensive and house-constrained cities.

Re: The real cost of owning a home

#254
post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, this is broadly correct. The free market will (roughly) arbitrage out any differences between owning and renting. The hidden factor is that whatever money you have in house equity represents opportunity cost that it isn't in investments. If you have 400k in a house and the stock market returns 6% over inflation, then the opportunity cost is 2k per month in interest, which is comparable to what you'd pay in rent.…

But the same argument applies to landlords too. Why are they willingly losing money?

I’m a landlord. I’m losing money because the Seattle market went to shit and nobody will buy this place.

I bought for $850k in 2017. Selling now asking $899k and no-one’s buying. Think of my ARR with inflation and opportunity cost here. I sold Facebook shares to get this. I have made zero return from rents overall. I’d likely have earned $1M if I hadn’t sold those shares.

Re: The real cost of owning a home

#255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have had very good experiences with corporate apartments. They tend to have their shit together. Compared to renting from some random old guy that wants to “fix things himself”

Corporate apartments raise their rents in lockstep with the market, whereas at least some randos will leave it stable for some years in a row.

I live in an apartment owned by a larger company, the rent raises really slowly in my experience, Like 3% per year. I have been at my unit for 15 years now, never had any problem or regret anything about it.

Re: The real cost of owning a home

#256
The decision to buy vs. rent is completely dependent & goal dependent. If you're in the bay area, buying really only makes sense if you have kids and want them to be in a good public school district. Otherwise, many houses are oversized and have extremely high repair costs. Finding a good rent controlled unit could be better, especially if you find a landlord who will repair things.

And anybody who is saying their property value went up, so it was worth it, you really couldn't know that at the time. It wasn't a given (tbf neither is the market going up). Also, it's not like the property actual increased in value due to some quality upgrade, it's due to artificial scarcity. If the political winds change to encourage more housing, that trend could reverse.

There are arguments that you can customize a house you own more and that's true, but that's not a financial argument. I don't think a lot of big renovations pencil out anymore the way people expect. Paying X to renovate a kitchen doesn't increase the value of the house significantly over X anymore because the costs are so high and the high inflation erodes your dollar value much more quickly than in the past.

Re: The real cost of owning a home

#257
This is a super-useful article, and there are many cases where the cost of buying, owning, and selling a home is higher than that of renting. But sometimes ownership costs less than renting, and often—generally when you stay long enough—it can cost a lot less. One place in this article that hints why is when he says that in 2011 his mortgage was $2,329.92, whereas now 15 years later it's $2,440.48. That is a tiny crawl upward, nowhere near the rate of inflation. If he'd been paying $2,329.92 monthly in rent in 2011, he'd now be paying about $4,100. Inflation hits renters much harder than homeowners. Appreciation (a form of inflation) tends to help homeowners more than hurt them. Nerdwallet's rent vs buy calculator is quite sophisticated and can help you reason about your own situation. https://www.nerdwallet.com/mortgages/calculators/rent-vs-buy...

Re: The real cost of owning a home

#258

The benefit of owning a home is almost always psychological, not financial. If you take the money you'd use for a down payment and mortgage and invest it instead (after paying rent) you end up in about the same place. But the psychological benefits can be huge. You have much greater control over the place you spend most of your time. You can change it to your liking. You don't have to worry about rent increases or ow…

Neighbors of owned-properties: - care about the long-term effects of their actions - care about the plan of their surroundings - plan to stick around This is a HUGE part of the psychological benefit you refer to of buying. Notably this is equally applicable to any occupant-owned property (e.g. condos > apartments).

Yeah, but it's also one of the downsides. "Care about the plan of their surroundings" can just as easily turn into the HOA drama that many prefer to avoid.

Re: The real cost of owning a home

#259

The benefit of owning a home is almost always psychological, not financial. If you take the money you'd use for a down payment and mortgage and invest it instead (after paying rent) you end up in about the same place. But the psychological benefits can be huge. You have much greater control over the place you spend most of your time. You can change it to your liking. You don't have to worry about rent increases or ow…

One term for this is "price-to-rent ratio" which is as simple as it sounds.

The ratio has a wide range from city to city.

Full financial analysis gets complicated quickly because you have to consider mortgage rates, inflation, opportunity cost of the invested money, and how long you're keeping the house. It's possible to pick the more financially optimal decision using today's numbers and then have your perfect plan clobbered by a collapsing housing market, extreme swings in interest rates, or being forced to move early.

Re: The real cost of owning a home

#260
This is a South African take on owning a home.

Author is correct that if you don’t live in the house long, the overheads such as transfer duties and legal fees make it somewhat expensive.

But over here we have a pretty high interest rate of around 10% and comparatively high inflation rate, which makes the initial purchase of a house be a bit challenging, but if you start paying more than the minimum as soon as possible you can find yourself in a financially more comfortable position.

My bank allows me to have something they call an access facility on my bond account (the account for the debt on my house). With this I can transfer extra money into my bond at any time and I can draw this extra money out at any time too, this extra money counts as extra paid on the principal.

This essentially means that any extra money I put in it is worth about 10% p/a in terms of the interest it saves me.

They calculate interest per day so even if extra money sits in there for only a few days, depending on the amount the interest saved could be worth a coffee or possibly a meal.

Although I settle my credit card every month, everything I route through it and don’t have to pay back interest free for the next 30-45 days is essentially saving me that portion of interest on my bond, so easily over a percent. And that’s before credit card rewards.

And while I don’t recommend this except for the most financially disciplined as it is a little precarious feeling, I have a second credit card which I’m able to settle using my first credit card, this adds yet another 30 days of essentially interest saving to me.

It’s a great way to save for something big over say a year or two, even if you draw everything you deposited out again two years later, it’s saved you from the interest in the meantime, so you’re still better off.

Then there is the effect of inflation. If you’ve been able to put a good amount extra into your bond each month, you will find that after 5 years or so it’s probably less financially burdensome than renting.

This is because since you bought the place, property prices have gone up, so has rent and so has your salary, but your principle debt has not increased with it, meaning you’re paying no more than you were 5 years ago for the monthly instalments, but due to inflation it is comparatively less expensive.

Anyway, that’s the financials aspect, but on the quality of life aspect, a few years ago we finally bought a house that should be very nice for our family for the next 20-30 years, in terms of size, comforts and security.

We also bought a house with an old interior and renovated it, making the bathrooms and kitchens modern and how we wanted them. Was also able to chase conduits into all the walls (brick and mortar houses are the norm here) so that every room has CAT6 going to it.

Post reply on HN