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Microsoft pulls plug on plans for 244-acre data center in Caledonia (2025)

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Re: Microsoft pulls plug on plans for 244-acre data center in Caledonia (2025)

#111
post #4

What is the actual procedure through which this happens? You buy the land and then are granted permission on a discretionary basis? It seems to me that if you were a small business this becomes much harder to participate in because you need to acquire and hold the unproductive asset. This would mean that land use tends towards that which large firms (which can sustain the costs easily by self-financing) find useful.

I’ve had multiple friends try to start businesses that got stuck on this: You can’t really get permits until you have the property and start drawing up plans.

For simple businesses like a retail store in a location that has other retail it’s not too risky to bet that you’ll be approved, too.

For businesses with unique needs or that happen to be in the public crosshairs, you’re putting a lot at risk in the process.

The process favors big companies and developers who have established relationships and “connections” with the planning boards.

The situation is even wilder in some other countries, both more and less corrupt than the average US municipality. In some places you’re not getting a permit at all without a sizable bribe, or having an in with the planning board.

In my city one of the aspiring developers tried to run an expensive political campaign to get a family member into an office that could have helped with their approvals. People caught on and didn’t like it one iota.

Re: Microsoft pulls plug on plans for 244-acre data center in Caledonia (2025)

#112

Well my IP (regular plain residential Asian ISP) is blocked on this site. Zealous Cloudflare-blocking is breaking the web. (also thanks for the useful message telling me to "contact the website owner... while blocking me from the website where the contact info should be)

block was enabled by site owner, not cloudflare. If they used something else they'd just blanked block ASN IP blocks

And as stated by others, it's about not complying with GDPR et al. Heck, this is not even Cloudflare, it's AWS Cloudfront!

Re: Microsoft pulls plug on plans for 244-acre data center in Caledonia (2025)

#113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The better solution to blocking entire continents is probably doing nothing. For DDoS resistance... Well I can imagine a world where a tech in the same area as IPFS or freenet gives backup access to websites that are overloaded.

> For DDoS resistance... Well I can imagine a world where a tech in the same area as IPFS or freenet gives backup access to websites that are overloaded. As a small website owner, I can use Cloudflare or I can wait for this imagined tech.

You can use CF and lose relevance. Or even go beyond that and outright geoip-block .

Ofc it's your choice.

For some reason there are many small sites I have no problem visiting and then there are those CF users which may or may not work at any given moment, forcing me to ignore them.

Well, good luck. You are cutting yourself from the internet, not cutting me off.

Re: Microsoft pulls plug on plans for 244-acre data center in Caledonia (2025)

#114
post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How many small websites served by Cloudflare risk being DDOS'd? How many small website owners would incur serious loss of livelihood if they are DDOS'd for a few days? Is DDOS risk so important that the web needs a protection racket? > If small websites can just be DDOS'd out of existence DDOS doesn't destroy websites. It just makes them unreachable until the disgruntled person decides it's been running long enough.…

> DDOS doesn't destroy websites. It just makes them unreachable until the disgruntled person decides it's been running long enough. You can be absolutely destroyed if your hosting provider later hits you as a Website Owner with an excess traffic bill.

While it is entirely possible to enter such a contract with a provider, it is your fault in the end. Don't maybe enter them?

Re: Microsoft pulls plug on plans for 244-acre data center in Caledonia (2025)

#115
post #4

What is the actual procedure through which this happens? You buy the land and then are granted permission on a discretionary basis? It seems to me that if you were a small business this becomes much harder to participate in because you need to acquire and hold the unproductive asset. This would mean that land use tends towards that which large firms (which can sustain the costs easily by self-financing) find useful.

Here in Orlando two large builders bought about 90% of downtowns empty lots (and several older buildings) promising new high rises in 2022, then threw in the towel after evicting all the tenants and now most of Church street station is completely empty. Of course local government had put nothing in the agreement about time frame of completion, what happens if the builder gives up, etc.

So now, all of it sits abandoned, no construction started, and now its not even worth building as they claim "down town is dead".

This is likely the fate of that land, a write off until its so valuable they can sell it to someone else.

Re: Microsoft pulls plug on plans for 244-acre data center in Caledonia (2025)

#116
post #104

I'd say they should come build them in Canada instead since our energy is cheaper, but anti-industrial development policy and NIMBYism is even more embedded than America, which is probably why no one is bothering.

I think it's less this and more they're encouraged to build in America over Canada.

Re: Microsoft pulls plug on plans for 244-acre data center in Caledonia (2025)

#117
post #98
post #5

My first reaction is that 244 acres for a data center sounds absolutely obscene. But I have to admit that I'm coming from a place of ignorance. How big "should" a data center be? How big are some other data centers? How big is us-east-1, for an example of a large one? I'm finding this to be rather difficult information to google.

Caledonia is an exurb of Milwaukee, so it's pretty sparse and spread out. There isn't that much demand for land on the outskirts of Milwaukee and most of the demand out there is industrial. Compared to the other industrial uses you'd get, data centers are almost certainly preferable.

> Compared to the other industrial uses you'd get, data centers are almost certainly preferable.

Why? The ratio of jobs and taxes to local resources tied up has to be one of the worst possible trade-offs of any industrial use that you can envision. That is precisely why data centers are proving to be profoundly unpopular.

Compare and contrast to something like a Boeing assembly plant with thousands of high-paid skilled jobs, and knock-on effects with local service providers and OEM vendors.

Re: Microsoft pulls plug on plans for 244-acre data center in Caledonia (2025)

#118
post #23

Probably a wise decision on their part Microsoft already is all in on Copilot AI if it fails, the CEO probably is gone.

One of the emails that came out in the Musk v. OpenAI trial was Nadella in 2022 saying he wanted to own the entire AI stack. Four years later Microsoft is no closer to owning any part of the AI stack. Complete fumble of the bag.

Re: Microsoft pulls plug on plans for 244-acre data center in Caledonia (2025)

#119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The site's also blocked for me, also on a normal residential IP. Making your site inaccessible for people out of fear that somebody might make it inaccessible for people feels reminiscent of blockading the strait because you don't want the strait blockaded.

> feels reminiscent of blockading the strait because you don't want the strait blockaded I think this is a poor analogy, unnecessarily politicizing the topic. It might be a good analogy the other way around, if hackers DDOSed the website as revenge for partial IP-based blocking, in order to apply pressure to the website operator to remove IP-based blocking. But that wasn't the topic.

It's accurate. The USA is doing "Iran can't blockade the strait if I blockade the strait!" and Cloudflare is doing "Hackers can't take your site offline if I take your site offline!"

Re: Microsoft pulls plug on plans for 244-acre data center in Caledonia (2025)

#120
post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How many small websites served by Cloudflare risk being DDOS'd? How many small website owners would incur serious loss of livelihood if they are DDOS'd for a few days? Is DDOS risk so important that the web needs a protection racket? > If small websites can just be DDOS'd out of existence DDOS doesn't destroy websites. It just makes them unreachable until the disgruntled person decides it's been running long enough.…

> DDOS doesn't destroy websites. It just makes them unreachable until the disgruntled person decides it's been running long enough. You can be absolutely destroyed if your hosting provider later hits you as a Website Owner with an excess traffic bill.

Fire your provider then. They're probably not paying for inbound traffic (most orgs are billed on the dominant traffic direction, so inbound for eyeballs and outbound for hosting), so it's pure extortion on their part.
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