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Search engines alternatives now that Google isn't Google anymore

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Re: Search engines alternatives now that Google isn't Google anymore

#421

Post by dawnerd »

dmd wrote: post #84

I really really really really want to love Kagi, but every time I try it (and I just spent a month trying it, ending a week or so ago), I end up back at Google, finding that my search results are better. I think the reason is my searches are almost entirely long-tail searches that Kagi's index just isn't good enough for. I am never searching for something like "best mattress" or anything else that is heavily SEO'd -…

Recently even searching for things like best xyz on Kagi has been nothing but ai sites in the results. Seems their stop slop project failed.

I still use and recommend Kagi but the results have gotten worse, but I also think that’s just an indicator of the health of the web as a whole.

Re: Search engines alternatives now that Google isn't Google anymore

#422

Post by theodric »

peesem wrote: post #170
theodric wrote: post #124

udm=14 is still working for me (for now) to disenshittify the results. You can use my Firefox extension to inject it: https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/google-search...

`&udm=14` just sends you to the "web" tab of search, which does remove the AI summary, but you also lose the widgets that google puts at the top of search, if you like those (weather, calculator, games, etc). one of my friends recently found that you can add a short invalid filter parameter like `&tbs=1` and it'll give you the main search with no AI but with those widgets if they would normally appear. you do still g…

`-ai` was doing that for me a few months ago, but I'm afk and haven't tried it recently

Re: Search engines alternatives now that Google isn't Google anymore

#423

Post by kevin_thibedeau »

WarmWash wrote: post #141
rpdillon wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I paid for Kagi for a bit, but got a weird vibe when I realized they were working pretty hard to paper over the fact that they pay a third party to scrape Google search results for them. The public-facing side of that coin is Kagi's position that Google should make their index available to competitors (see https://blog.kagi.com/waiting-dawn-search ). All that's to say: when I paid for Kagi, I thought I was investing…

Nobody wants to pay for anything, so the services that figured out how to profit from people not paying will win. There was this idea born in the late '90's/early 00's that everything digital should be free. The internet was dominated by teenagers with no job and no credit card, so it made sense. But the result of that has been a whole generation with an allergy to compensation, and the inability for anyone to compet…

Prior to eternal September, the internet was dominated by college students and staff. Everything was free by virtue of there being no secure payment mechanism. That spirit continued as it opened to the broader public.

Re: Search engines alternatives now that Google isn't Google anymore

#424

Post by scratchyone »

plqbfbv wrote: post #112
scratchyone wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who also loves Kagi, what do you like so much about Fastmail? Seeing it compared to Kagi makes me want to give it a try as well haha.

Just like parent poster, there's a few things I pay for, and those are Kagi and Fastmail :) Fastmail is... FAST. The page refresh is basically instant, and the UI is super-snappy, well refined and something like 2026, while Gmail hasn't changed in... 15 years? It supports a lot of features (identities, masked addresses, ...), not to mention that I can have my domains properly hosted on it, for 5eur/mo.

thank you lol, this has convinced me to switch over to fastmail

Re: Search engines alternatives now that Google isn't Google anymore

#426

Post by acdha »

simianwords wrote: post #20

I don't get the hysteria against LLM here? Like LLM's are the best thing to happen for search engines. They are a huge step above traditional ones like google. So what that google uses LLM's as a supplementary tool for no cost? This really looks like some ideological thing evoking visceral emotions. If you really want the best search engine, ChatGPT with thinking mode enabled is by far the best search engine technolo…

You’re getting downvoted because you couldn’t even make it through one sentence without dismissing valid concerns. You simply assert that the results are better without showing awareness of the argument, which reveals your accusation of ideological bias to be rather blatant projection when you’re not even demonstrating awareness of the problems, much less the expertise needed to dismiss them. The accuracy issues are real and significant–you should especially learn about the research showing the problem when something wrong or incomplete is presented authoritatively by a trusted source like Google rather than some random blogger–but that’s not the only problem: Google is effectively parasitizing the open web which made them rich by no longer sending visitors to the sites which provide original content. That might be profitable for them but it’s worse for everyone else — even as a Google shareholder I think this shouldn’t be allowed.

Re: Search engines alternatives now that Google isn't Google anymore

#427

Post by freehorse »

xnx wrote: post #249
nobodywasishere wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> didn't realize Kagi had no aspirations to build their own general purpose index Kagi employee here. We're actively working on building our own indexes beyond the limited ones we have now, not just a general index but also purpose built indexes for things like programming, etc.

> We're actively working on building our own indexes Lip service. You'll have some token index of Wikipedia or something so you can say your results are "a blend of our own index and other sources".

Wikipedia is prob in "other sources", as they actually say they have a direct license for it.

https://blog.kagi.com/waiting-dawn-search#:~:text=Wikipedia,...

Re: Search engines alternatives now that Google isn't Google anymore

#428

Post by mjamesaustin »

Izmaki wrote: post #371
vitally3643 wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been a Kagi subscriber for several years now. If you're questioning the AI features, know that I am only barely aware they exist. I have never, not even once, accidentally or otherwise, engaged the AI features without going out of my way to do so. I've never seen what their AI is like. I have no idea what it's for or why I'd want it. It's beautiful. Kagi has AI I suppose, but it's over there and not in my face.…

I'm curious: what is your use-case for a search engine that justifies Kagi over free search engines? Are you not finding your results on page one, first try, with other engines?

This is constantly the case, anytime I Google something more obscure than the front page of a top 50 website.

Even when Google gets it right (often they don't) I have to wade through a bunch of AI slop and countless ads. After that, it's dozens of SEO referral link sites trying to sell me garbage.

Kagi gives me better results by default, no ads, and I can customize results by prioritizing or blocking different domains. Very much worth the small price.

Re: Search engines alternatives now that Google isn't Google anymore

#429

Post by xyzzy_plugh »

mapt wrote: post #128
reactordev wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It no longer searches for me but tells me to search for what I’m looking for, which brings it back to itself, telling me to go search for what I’m looking for…

Yesterday I tried Gemini "Can you find the origin of this story I remember from 10+ years ago? Here's three paragraphs of what I recall" "Yeah, it sounds like a very common copypasta back in the early 2010's, related to XYZ" "So... uhh... provide me a link please" "I can't provide links" "You're a search engine" "I don't have a current connection to the Internet." "Well can you give me any examples of anything even v…

I've encountered this as well. I'm pretty sure it is unable to produce answers involving some copyrighted works. For example, I was trying to find an old video and it filled in the gaps in my knowledge very accurately, however it absolutely could not provide an actual link to the video or any concrete content related to the video.

In my case I suspect the original uploader took down their videos from YouTube or there was some legal process involved. But it was very weird for the Gemini answer to confirm exactly what I was looking for but be unable to articulate in a way that helped me. Totally bizarre, as if the topic was ablated from the LLM.

I would much prefer getting a straight answer, "due to copyright I can't discuss this" or something.

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