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The seed oil panic is hurting my cardiac patients

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Re: The seed oil panic is hurting my cardiac patients

#101

Post by SoftTalker »

lithocarpus wrote: post #67
declan_roberts wrote: post #11

> Back in the hospital, my patients are replacing olive oil with beef tallow This is a weird thing to call out since olive oil isn't a seed oil. Is the point that patients are confused? Does the author (a purported dietitian) not know this himself/herself?

Much olive oil is not refined or ultra processed, but in the US market, 25%+ is. According to https://www.imarcgroup.com/united-states-olive-oil-market 10% of olive oil in the US market is refined using the same hexane process as canola or soybean oil, and another 15% is refined using other chemical processes. It's not a seed oil but for many people concerned about ultra processed food including refined oils, it's no…

Avocado oil is good for high temperature sautéing,

Is there anything to look for on the label to tell what refining process is used for an olive oil? There are so many different brands now that I suspect some of them are just different labels on the same product.

Re: The seed oil panic is hurting my cardiac patients

#102

Post by fabian2k »

DoctorOetker wrote: post #85
fabian2k wrote: post #5

The media and the scientific community are not set up for the situation where cranks with absurdly unscientific views are at the top of the major scientific and health authorities. RFK Jr. still gets too much benefit of the doubt for his initiatives when it is obvious that he is opposed to science and has views about health that are just outright dangerous. And we have the usual problem with this administration that…

[flagged]

Modern medicine saves lives. Of course natural selection doesn't fully apply anymore in our society. But you're suggesting that letting children die from preventable diseases is a bad thing. It's not.

Re: The seed oil panic is hurting my cardiac patients

#103

Post by sinuhe69 »

lithocarpus wrote: post #78
bob1029 wrote: post #71

Seed oils probably aren't ideal, but I also worry how much this narrative is distracting from the bigger problem of sugar consumption. Humans only have so much attention and discipline. It would be a shame to focus all that energy on a "no seed oil" diet only to wind up even more unhealthy. How many products with seed oil also contain some form of added sugar? I don't seem to have much issue with moderating the occas…

Two things can be harmful at once. I am curious which is worse in terms of contribution to modern chronic metabolic disease. In the case of ultra-processed/refined oils though, there is an argument to be made that these are novel foods that humans never ate until very recently. There aren't any old people who have been eating them their whole lives in the quantities we do now. This is probably true for industrially r…

Really? I don't know exactly how long people have been eating oil from olive, flax seed, sesame, coconut or palm nut, but I believe not under 6000–7000 years. But yeah, not the stuff we eat today.

Re: The seed oil panic is hurting my cardiac patients

#104

Post by [deleted] »

lithocarpus wrote: post #78
bob1029 wrote: post #71

Seed oils probably aren't ideal, but I also worry how much this narrative is distracting from the bigger problem of sugar consumption. Humans only have so much attention and discipline. It would be a shame to focus all that energy on a "no seed oil" diet only to wind up even more unhealthy. How many products with seed oil also contain some form of added sugar? I don't seem to have much issue with moderating the occas…

Two things can be harmful at once. I am curious which is worse in terms of contribution to modern chronic metabolic disease. In the case of ultra-processed/refined oils though, there is an argument to be made that these are novel foods that humans never ate until very recently. There aren't any old people who have been eating them their whole lives in the quantities we do now. This is probably true for industrially r…

[deleted]

Re: The seed oil panic is hurting my cardiac patients

#105

Post by knollimar »

Cthulhu_ wrote: post #15
declan_roberts wrote: post #11

> Back in the hospital, my patients are replacing olive oil with beef tallow This is a weird thing to call out since olive oil isn't a seed oil. Is the point that patients are confused? Does the author (a purported dietitian) not know this himself/herself?

A few paragraphs into the article, the author addresses the "seed oil" misnomer; it's better to keep reading before jumping to the comments to do a knee-jerk comment to a single statement.

I read it and still was confused. The author flips back and forth on what they're purporting their patients think are bad

Re: The seed oil panic is hurting my cardiac patients

#106

Post by djmips »

beej71 wrote: post #88
Spide_r wrote: post #17

This has a lot of ai-isms, wish they would share the pre-rewrite draft at this point.

If I take my 100%-handwritten prose and hand it to a detector, it tells me it's 30% AI. Those detectors are crap and they're training people to also be crap at it. I'm not changing how I write just to sound "less AI".

That's something an AI would say.

Re: The seed oil panic is hurting my cardiac patients

#107

Post by knollimar »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #59
onion2k wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is that even possible with the current food supply chain though?

> Is that even possible with the current food supply chain though? Yes. Potatoes, onions and beans have are healthy, cheap and well-supplied staples. And I absolutely notice when I’m on a bean and onion week versus a sandwich or rice week.

what does "notice" mean in this context???

Re: The seed oil panic is hurting my cardiac patients

#108

Post by bawolff »

onion2k wrote: post #39
lopis wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If people got 75% of their calories from plant based whole foods, a lot of health problems would probably disappear overnight.

Is that even possible with the current food supply chain though?

> Is that even possible with the current food supply chain though?

Given that vegans exist, i'm going to say yes, its entirely possible if you feel like it.

Re: The seed oil panic is hurting my cardiac patients

#109

Post by yankee_dodge »

The scariest part of this well-reasoned piece is the amount of trans fat in beef tallow. Trans fat is unbelievably destructive. A review in the New England Journal of Medicine 20 years ago [0] sent that message well. I doubt there has been any significant revision to the understanding of the physiology.

[0] https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMra054035

Re: The seed oil panic is hurting my cardiac patients

#110

Post by lithocarpus »

> There’s a secondary argument about oxidation — seed oils go rancid at high heat, producing potentially harmful compounds. This idea is chemically real and worth being thoughtful about (don’t reuse frying oil repeatedly). But the evidence that oxidation at home-cooking levels causes measurable harm in humans isn’t there.

Even if oxidation at home-cooking levels doesn't cause harm, which I suspect that it does though to a lesser degree, two thirds of seed oil market in the US is industrial or prepared food, much of which does go rancid or is reused frying oil.

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