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Green card seekers must leave U.S. to apply, Trump administration says

nytimes.com

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Re: Green card seekers must leave U.S. to apply, Trump administration says

#831

Post by xg15 »

jmyeet wrote: post #748
varenc wrote: post #443

The internal memo on this is interesting: https://www.uscis.gov/sites/default/files/document/memos/PM-... Essentially they're trying to change the rules by aggressive re-interpretation of the existing legal framework, and not actually changing any laws or regulations. I don't follow all of it, but it seems to be arguing that the "ordinary consular process", leaving the country and applying for a visa from abroad, is…

So this is an example of being careful what you wish for. Neil Gorsuch's mother had to resign in disgrace as the EPA administrator under Reagan in a case that ultimately became what was called "Chevron deference" [1]. Chevron deference meant that when Congress wrote ambiguous statutes, courts would defer to the interpretation of the agencies responsible for enforcing them. Almost 40 years of laws were written with th…

> There are people who cannot or should not leave the US to consular process. They may have incurred unlawful presence that will then get them a 3 or 10 year bar from returning. This bar may well apply if they have to consular process instead of do an AoS. Some people may not be able to leave (eg asylees).

This feels like it might be the actual motivation of the Trump admin to do this change. The cruelty is indeed the point.

Re: Green card seekers must leave U.S. to apply, Trump administration says

#832

Post by bluecheese452 »

echelon wrote: post #473
bluegatty wrote: post #354

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"an easy solution: increase the number of legal immigrants we allow." Not really. The answer is: have a fair, transparent and function system. Then - yes - you can totally 'increase' (or decrease) as needed. 'Increase a bit' likely the right thing to do - but it's a completely separate question. But throwing Green Card holders out is completely insane, grabbing people out of church and schools and putting them into d…

> Then you can adjust the numbers one way or another. The numbers need to go up. China, in particular, has an "elite overproduction" problem. We should be welcoming every English-speaking Chinese STEM degree holder with open arms. Anyone, from anywhere, with a STEM degree and a job offer from a US company, should be in this country. Period. America needs to be the leader of the knowledge workforce world. We also need…

There are already far too many US college grads who can’t get jobs. I have friends who had 1500+ SAT scores with stem degrees who never found meaningful work. Give these people jobs before you give it to the Chinese.

Re: Green card seekers must leave U.S. to apply, Trump administration says

#833

Post by tao_oat »

I love the US; I’ve lived there and held an H-1B visa. Moving there permanently was a teenage dream of mine.

Unfortunately the country in that dream no longer exists. I now avoid jobs that require travel to the US. As a non-American it makes a lot more sense to focus on building up the tech centres closer to home.

Re: Green card seekers must leave U.S. to apply, Trump administration says

#834

Post by aucisson_masque »

fredrb wrote: post #66

This news has to be read alongside the immigration visa emission pause for 75 countries by DOS[1]. Since USCIS is blocking Adjustment of Status, and the Department of State is blocking green card emission for citizens of 75 countries, this means that if you are from the following countries you are effectively banned from getting a Green Card: Afghanistan, Albania, Algeria, Antigua and Barbuda, Armenia, Azerbaijan, Ba…

Immigrating to the usa is not a right. It is granted.

I don't see the problem, and I'm not even American or Trump supporter. It just makes sense.

Re: Green card seekers must leave U.S. to apply, Trump administration says

#835

Post by 0xDEAFBEAD »

koe123 wrote: post #799

The most insane thing to me is that legal (non-asylum) immigration is somehow framed as a “moral” thing that nations do out of charity. Its not: you get to directly address a shortage in your country without the burden of raising and training the person. Arguably, if you don’t mind morality, the immigrants are also easier to exploit. And all that + you get a free tax payer! My reading is that Americans (but also othe…

Switzerland does this well. In Switzerland, immigrants are mostly permanent residents. Achieving Swiss citizenship is very difficult. They have a bunch of immigrants in their country, yet immigration is much less divisive than in other countries, since they have such a well-designed system.

The US has a naturalization-driven model of immigration, which is being tested by fast jet travel. It worked OK in the days when you had to pay a bunch to cross the Atlantic and you couldn't easily communicate with your relatives back home. But things are different now.

The citizenship model or naturalization model creates policy implications for accepting immigrants. New voters, new policies. Of course the people on the losing end of this policy shift become upset: https://arctotherium.substack.com/p/increasing-skilled-immig...

Re: Green card seekers must leave U.S. to apply, Trump administration says

#837

Post by stinkbeetle »

tao_oat wrote: post #833

I love the US; I’ve lived there and held an H-1B visa. Moving there permanently was a teenage dream of mine. Unfortunately the country in that dream no longer exists. I now avoid jobs that require travel to the US. As a non-American it makes a lot more sense to focus on building up the tech centres closer to home.

Not American here, what did you like about it that is no longer?

Re: Green card seekers must leave U.S. to apply, Trump administration says

#838

Post by 0xDEAFBEAD »

ern wrote: post #307
jfengel wrote: post #158

I hear "I'm not anti immigrant, I'm anti illegal immigrant" a lot. To which there is an easy solution: increase the number of legal immigrants we allow. Instead we're doing exactly the opposite, cutting down on legal immigration as well. Making it hard for me to believe that it was ever about illegal immigration at all.

I know this is going to. be contentious, but US mainstream discourse seems to have completely eliminated the distinction between illegal and legal immigration, in the last 10 years. Everyone seems to be a "migrant".

I don't think that is true at all. For example, it was considered a big deal when ICE was rounding up US citizens. It caused a big drop in public trust for ICE.

Re: Green card seekers must leave U.S. to apply, Trump administration says

#839

Post by shell0x »

skupig wrote: post #522
shell0x wrote: post #510

That makes sense to me. If you come on a non-immigrant visa, you can’t become a permanent resident easily. it’s a privilege, not a right. Other countries like the UAE also take a lot of foreign workers but do not want them become PRs or citizens and there are tons of people moving there for opportunities. The labor is needed but they don’t want these people permanently. You made your money, now leave

That doesn't make any sense. The US enjoys its position of economic power because it has the reputation and wealth to attract skilled people and keep them here.

Skilled people have O visas. The H1Bs are the ones you don’t want long-term.

Re: Green card seekers must leave U.S. to apply, Trump administration says

#840

Post by saberience »

confuseddesi wrote: post #438
abalashov wrote: post #377

This is insane. I cannot fathom how I, nor educated and talented people I know, could have possibly stayed in the US back in the day if this requirement had been in place then. Applying for a greencard while working on an H, J or O-class visa is extremely common. Far from a loophole, applying from inside the US is the only reasonable way to apply for a greencard. Depending on the country of origin, there may not even…

These are all non-immigrant visa classes. The understanding is that you are temporarily immigrating to the United States. Why should it be surprising then that it is hard to become a permanent resident/immigrant if you explicitly came on a non-immigrant visa?

This seems like one of the most obtuse or bad faith comments I’ve ever seen.

Practically every country has pathways to permanent residence or citizenship via non immigrant visas, including the US.

Why? Because it makes practical sense. You can be living in the US on a H1 visa for 6 years, and at this point you could have a wife, kids etc, so it makes sense to have a pathway to residency where you don’t have to leave the country at that point.

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