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Anna's Archive hit with $19.5M default judgment and global domain takedown order

torrentfreak.com

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Re: Anna's Archive hit with $19.5M default judgment and global domain takedown order

#161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They do, but under a completely different system than the way that they do for print books. When a library buys a print book, they can keep it in circulation for as long as they want and it's physically durable, but for digital, they're paying either per circulation or for an amount of time. They never own anything, they pay for temporary licenses, just like you never own the digital media you purchase in most cases.…

Is there really a meaningful distinction between how libraries treat digital book licenses and physical books when you actually hit reality? My knowledge of how libraries work is very shallow, but I've always understood that they treat physical books as essentially consumable and have fairly high standards for what a "lendable" copy of a book is. A purely assumptive example, but if a library pays for a 2 year license…

I think the practical difference is that the rates that publishers charge libraries for ebooks are significantly higher than what either consumers pay for the ebook or what a physical book costs. See https://archive.is/Ha3VQ for one example:

> To illustrate the economics of e-book lending, the N.Y.P.L. sent me its January, 2021, figures for “A Promised Land,” the memoir by Barack Obama that had been published a few months earlier by Penguin Random House. At that point, the library system had purchased three hundred and ten perpetual audiobook licenses at ninety-five dollars each, for a total of $29,450, and had bought six hundred and thirty-nine one- and two-year licenses for the e-book, for a total of $22,512. Taken together, these digital rights cost about as much as three thousand copies of the consumer e-book, which sells for about eighteen dollars per copy. As of August, 2021, the library has spent less than ten thousand dollars on two hundred and twenty-six copies of the hardcover edition, which has a list price of forty-five dollars but sells for $23.23 on Amazon. A few thousand people had checked out digital copies in the book’s first three months, and thousands more were on the waiting list. (Several librarians told me that they monitor hold requests, including for books that have not yet been released, to decide how many licenses to acquire.)

Re: Anna's Archive hit with $19.5M default judgment and global domain takedown order

#162
post #84

Why LLM companies that depended on Anna's archive end up so clean ? Looks like Anna's archive was doing the dirty work, and the LLM companies were reaping the profits (and ironically still do, as they hold the largest databases of pirated content in the world). Is it because the law doesn't apply to you when you have 1B USD ?

You can make an argument that training an LLM on something is not the same as copying it in the same way that your brain is not in breach of copyright for having watched a Disney movie. I'm not sure of the rights and wrongs of that but it complicates legal action.

Re: Anna's Archive hit with $19.5M default judgment and global domain takedown order

#163
post #125

Not going to claim anything regarding Anna’s Archive’s legitimacy, but what do libraries look like in the future? We’re just going to give up and say, first sale was great while we had it, but digital makes it obsolete? When you die, screw donating your collection of “licenses” to somewhere productive; those contracts died with you? Everything is streaming, so you never purchased anything anyway? It’s crazy to me tha…

I work at a nonprofit and the board is largely university librarians. I am asking all of them how have the behavior of their patrons changed in the last five years. How has usage of their subscribed resources changed in the age of AI. They don't share much, but their facial expressions and silence share more than they mean them to. Some universities have cut staff, or reclassified them so that they won't receive bene…

> They don't share much

Why not?

Re: Anna's Archive hit with $19.5M default judgment and global domain takedown order

#164
post #41
post #9

Wikipedia is US based so does this mean they’ll stop sharing the URLs on there?

The injunction appears to target DNS specifically, so no. The links will just break.

And then the new links will be added to Wikipedia.

Re: Anna's Archive hit with $19.5M default judgment and global domain takedown order

#165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They do, but under a completely different system than the way that they do for print books. When a library buys a print book, they can keep it in circulation for as long as they want and it's physically durable, but for digital, they're paying either per circulation or for an amount of time. They never own anything, they pay for temporary licenses, just like you never own the digital media you purchase in most cases.…

Is there really a meaningful distinction between how libraries treat digital book licenses and physical books when you actually hit reality? My knowledge of how libraries work is very shallow, but I've always understood that they treat physical books as essentially consumable and have fairly high standards for what a "lendable" copy of a book is. A purely assumptive example, but if a library pays for a 2 year license…

1) library has control of the decision-making; 2) they can resell or donate the book when it's exhausted its shelf-life

Re: Anna's Archive hit with $19.5M default judgment and global domain takedown order

#167
post #162
post #84

Why LLM companies that depended on Anna's archive end up so clean ? Looks like Anna's archive was doing the dirty work, and the LLM companies were reaping the profits (and ironically still do, as they hold the largest databases of pirated content in the world). Is it because the law doesn't apply to you when you have 1B USD ?

You can make an argument that training an LLM on something is not the same as copying it in the same way that your brain is not in breach of copyright for having watched a Disney movie. I'm not sure of the rights and wrongs of that but it complicates legal action.

Can I download an archive of movies so a human animator can study the techniques there?

Surely you have to make the copy to feed it into the llm for training, so

Re: Anna's Archive hit with $19.5M default judgment and global domain takedown order

#168
post #84

Why LLM companies that depended on Anna's archive end up so clean ? Looks like Anna's archive was doing the dirty work, and the LLM companies were reaping the profits (and ironically still do, as they hold the largest databases of pirated content in the world). Is it because the law doesn't apply to you when you have 1B USD ?

Distribution. Anna's archive actively distributes the pirated material. LLM companies don't.

Fruit of the poisonous tree.

Re: Anna's Archive hit with $19.5M default judgment and global domain takedown order

#169
post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can make an argument that training an LLM on something is not the same as copying it in the same way that your brain is not in breach of copyright for having watched a Disney movie. I'm not sure of the rights and wrongs of that but it complicates legal action.

Can I download an archive of movies so a human animator can study the techniques there? Surely you have to make the copy to feed it into the llm for training, so

I think some of the LLM companies have used legally purchased materials.
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