My main takeaway from the video is just how terrible Toyota was at marketing this.
Nobody understands the point of hybrid cars [video]
111–120 of 230 posts
Re: Nobody understands the point of hybrid cars [video]
#112Earlier quoted context omitted.
Another consideration is your local climate. It can get down to -40C here. Both ICE and EVs pay a range penalty in those conditions, but it compounds the problem with charging station density that EVs have + the time it takes to charge. And at least with an ICE, all that engine heat can be put to good use trying to keep the interior warm.
Having a heat pump for heating is then really important, as compared to a simple resistive heating element
Heat pumps work up to a certain temperature delta. They don't heat so good in -40.
Re: Nobody understands the point of hybrid cars [video]
#113Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think the problem a lot of non-Toyota manufacturers have run into is trying to have it both ways, like you said. For better or worse (I say better), the Prius really committed to hybrid as its own form. Plenty of hybrids really are an electric motor and a ICE tacked together, and with that system, you're going to hit twice (at least) the problems of either one. The thing I appreciate about the Toyota power-split de…
Ford has had a similar design (sharing patents with Toyota) since the first Escape Hybrid in '04. But they never stuck with a high mpg platform, they're using it to build 34mpg small trucks and SUVs, not 60mpg cars.
It's their ploy to game CAFE averages. High MPG cars don't offset their truck lineup. You can also thank the PT Cruiser for hatchback cars like the Mach-E being misclassified as trucks to enhance the gaming.
Re: Nobody understands the point of hybrid cars [video]
#114The EVs I'd really like to see some day in the US are the dirt cheap 100 mile range $5k Chinese EVs. One can dream I guess.
I dunno. While most people likely only need one of those, it just feeds into the narrative that you can't take EVs on road trips.
Re: Nobody understands the point of hybrid cars [video]
#115I have all three ICE, EV and hybrid at home. I was hesitant at first when getting the EV because we already had the hybrid, but we needed a second SUV to carry kids. After two years with the EV it became evident to me the hybrid doesn’t make sense. It has some of the gas savings of an EV but you still deal with the inconvenience of maintaining a ICE. My EV has received zero maintenance other than cleaning the cameras…
Another consideration is your local climate. It can get down to -40C here. Both ICE and EVs pay a range penalty in those conditions, but it compounds the problem with charging station density that EVs have + the time it takes to charge. And at least with an ICE, all that engine heat can be put to good use trying to keep the interior warm.
Cold soaked batteries are definitely less ideal but if you can plug in at home, planning your charge times and pre-conditioning the car while plugged in significantly reduces the range effects (and preheats the cabin for you!)
Re: Nobody understands the point of hybrid cars [video]
#116I have all three ICE, EV and hybrid at home. I was hesitant at first when getting the EV because we already had the hybrid, but we needed a second SUV to carry kids. After two years with the EV it became evident to me the hybrid doesn’t make sense. It has some of the gas savings of an EV but you still deal with the inconvenience of maintaining a ICE. My EV has received zero maintenance other than cleaning the cameras…
Another consideration is your local climate. It can get down to -40C here. Both ICE and EVs pay a range penalty in those conditions, but it compounds the problem with charging station density that EVs have + the time it takes to charge. And at least with an ICE, all that engine heat can be put to good use trying to keep the interior warm.
These problems are (imo) vastly overblown for the way most people drive. The only time the cold temperature reduced range / reduced charge speed are relevant is for long road trips where you’re driving > ~200mi at once. Otherwise, you just charge up at home overnight and easily recoup any normal driving range you used during the day, regardless of the temperature.
Norwegians have apparently figured this out. Despite being pretty damn cold, they’re buying EV’s almost exclusively now (97%).
Re: Nobody understands the point of hybrid cars [video]
#117I have all three ICE, EV and hybrid at home. I was hesitant at first when getting the EV because we already had the hybrid, but we needed a second SUV to carry kids. After two years with the EV it became evident to me the hybrid doesn’t make sense. It has some of the gas savings of an EV but you still deal with the inconvenience of maintaining a ICE. My EV has received zero maintenance other than cleaning the cameras…
Another consideration is your local climate. It can get down to -40C here. Both ICE and EVs pay a range penalty in those conditions, but it compounds the problem with charging station density that EVs have + the time it takes to charge. And at least with an ICE, all that engine heat can be put to good use trying to keep the interior warm.
at -40C you need to start plugging a block warmer into the ICE when you park, something that an EV doesn’t need, although it can benefit from the same plug for the block warmer into Fairbanks parking lots.
Re: Nobody understands the point of hybrid cars [video]
#118I have all three ICE, EV and hybrid at home. I was hesitant at first when getting the EV because we already had the hybrid, but we needed a second SUV to carry kids. After two years with the EV it became evident to me the hybrid doesn’t make sense. It has some of the gas savings of an EV but you still deal with the inconvenience of maintaining a ICE. My EV has received zero maintenance other than cleaning the cameras…
We have a couple EVs. Great, except for road trips, where range is more limited at freeway speeds, and charging is slow and obnoxious.
Definitely different than raod tripping in an ICE. We road trip in our Model Y and end up stopping often regardless of charging for snacking, stretching, walking the dogs, etc.
I remember talking to a coworker would couldn't accept taking 10 hours to drive somewhere instead of the 8.5 hours you can make it in an ICE. But then again we are definitely people who puts on road trips.
Re: Nobody understands the point of hybrid cars [video]
#119I always thought the problem with hybrids was the complexity of the drive train, but this video is challenging that notion. It argues that the hybrid pack (minus the battery, perhaps?) is more compact and simpler than a manual gearbox, even. It consists of two electric motors and a planetary gear set, which is seemingly simpler than clutch packs, gear sets and belts of regular transmissions, including CVTs. Time code…
It might be simpler than a regular gearbox, but so what? That tech is already commoditised, and generally very reliable. The engine - not the transmission - is the biggest pain point with ICE vehicles. It’s what needs constant maintenance and fluid changes.
Re: Nobody understands the point of hybrid cars [video]
#120Earlier quoted context omitted.
I don't know much about cars, but I have to assume that fewer moving parts means less wear and repairs.
That's a fair assumption that doesn't prove itself in practice. In practice, a Prius engine lasts forever. Someone will jump in to complain about some anecdotal failure but the fleet statistics are strong. They even outlast other non-hybrid Toyotas. There are a lot of reasons for this but a significant one is the lack of belt-driven accessories, lack of friction clutches, and ability to avoid high-stress operation be…
This is exactly correct, and I can't count how many times I've had to have this argument, thank you for pointing it out.
My hybrid (not a Prius, actually) doesn't have a dedicated starter motor, the traction motor starts the ICE engine. The climate control is electric and powered by the hybrid battery (with the added benefit of being able to run the A/C while the ICE engine is off). The power steering is electric so there's no hydraulic power steering pump to fail. I'm sure there's more I'm forgetting. Mechanically, it's just simpler than an ICE engine alone.
> ability to avoid high-stress operation because of the electric side of the power train.
This one is huge, also, and people always forget about it, so thank you for raising it. ICE hate being heavily loaded at low RPMs (also known as "lugging"), and the electric motors alleviate a lot of that low-end workload. It's a big win not just for efficiency, but also drivability, as almost all non-diesel engines make terrible torque low in their RPM range.