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Police Raid 9-Year-Old Pirate Bay Girl

torrentfreak.com

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Re: Police Raid 9-Year-Old Pirate Bay Girl

#131

Post by stfu »

contravert wrote: post #126
pg wrote: post #107

This is the reductio ad absurdum of current law. We need to work more actively to make this sort of thing stop. There are a range of solutions. We could try to change the laws. We could develop technology that would make it harder to catch file-sharers. We could attack the labels directly by trying to pinch off the sources of their revenue. I'm not sure which would work the best. My guess is that they're better at ma…

I have given this subject quite a bit of thought, and I believe the solution is to fulfill this objective: Make filesharing simple and intuitive. The article states that the girl ultimately failed to download what she wanted, which I don't doubt is due to the complexity of navigating a torrent index and installing and running a torrent client. For most computer users, torrenting is too sophisticated, and it doesn't h…

I like that strain of thought with making it more easy for users to download stuff. But the problem with repositories is, that they are requiring a specific intent of the user to do something.

Let me try to contribute to the discussion with a few unrelated thoughts with the hope that some others are willing to share their own too.

I would love to see is for example an in-browser plug in, that is based on the torrenting idea. Similar to streaming, but just that the cached data is redistributed among those who stream a particular video. It somehow should reach a level, where users have a plausible deniability to not be able to differentiate between legal/illegal anymore and at the same time an implementation that is ideally only depending on an existing widespread standard/plugin.

Another idea would be a physical device that handles torrent downloads, i.e. the VPN connection, encryption of external HDs, and has a super simple and stupid interface to use. There would be lots of opportunities to cooperate with existing VPN providers plus advertising on trackers should be relatively cheap.

Re: Police Raid 9-Year-Old Pirate Bay Girl

#132

Post by hfsktr »

ashray wrote: post #3

Clicked through to the article hoping to see a picture of the laptop. Was not disappointed! :) On topic though, this just shows how ridiculous the MAFIAA is getting these days. Unfortunately, this episode played out negatively on the artist as well - who probably had nothing to do with the event. So piracy harms the artist, but in this case the MAFIAA hurt the artist even more by prosecuting someone for it [1] ? Not…

In this case the piracy didn't hurt the artist as they couldn't get the working files and went out and bought the cd. So even though it started with piracy they bought the music legitimately.

That kind of makes me wonder how it works, or the logic. If you download something to try it (pirate) then go buy the same content you'll still get in trouble? I understand that the law was broken then the legal way to obtain the content came but doesn't that sort of deter you from bothering to buy in the future? My idea above really would matter most for say downloading one song from an album then buying the album (books/movies you'd have the entire content anyways).

Just a curious thought as I'm sure I have a lot of the details quite wrong but following the logic here: if you've downloaded any part of an album you might as well download the entire album rather than buy the rest.

Re: Police Raid 9-Year-Old Pirate Bay Girl

#133

Post by contravert »

stfu wrote: post #131
contravert wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have given this subject quite a bit of thought, and I believe the solution is to fulfill this objective: Make filesharing simple and intuitive. The article states that the girl ultimately failed to download what she wanted, which I don't doubt is due to the complexity of navigating a torrent index and installing and running a torrent client. For most computer users, torrenting is too sophisticated, and it doesn't h…

I like that strain of thought with making it more easy for users to download stuff. But the problem with repositories is, that they are requiring a specific intent of the user to do something. Let me try to contribute to the discussion with a few unrelated thoughts with the hope that some others are willing to share their own too. I would love to see is for example an in-browser plug in, that is based on the torrenti…

I like the steganographic approach, and it could also work with a repository. Consider the following:

-Let Pc be a copyrighted package in the repository

-Let Pd be a public domain package in the repository

-Let Kc be the "key" of Pc

-Let Kd be the "key" of Pd

The keys are stored in the metadata of the packages, so we don't need to break any copyright laws to get them.

Suppose we have the following operations:

-E(Pc,Pd,Kc,Kd) = X

-D(X, Kc) = Pc

-D(X, Kd) = Pd

With this infrastructure, if we want to get Pc or Pd, we simply ask for X and then decode our desired file. This also gives plausible deniability, but I'm not sure how this will hold up in court.

Re: Police Raid 9-Year-Old Pirate Bay Girl

#134

Post by hardik988 »

djisjke wrote: post #129
yason wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indirect networking much like Tor or I2P. Translated to BitTorrent, everyone would be using just one extra hop to keep the speeds up but passing around encrypted packages for others would create plausible deniability. You can claim you don't know what the packet that you routed contained, because you can't know that. You can't be held liable for routing traffic per se, much like ISPs aren't liable for routing traffic…

Is anyone of you using OneSwarm? http://www.oneswarm.org/

This is intriguing. I wonder how effective it is in obscuring one's identity.

Re: Police Raid 9-Year-Old Pirate Bay Girl

#135

Post by kamaal »

contravert wrote: post #133
stfu wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like that strain of thought with making it more easy for users to download stuff. But the problem with repositories is, that they are requiring a specific intent of the user to do something. Let me try to contribute to the discussion with a few unrelated thoughts with the hope that some others are willing to share their own too. I would love to see is for example an in-browser plug in, that is based on the torrenti…

I like the steganographic approach, and it could also work with a repository. Consider the following: -Let Pc be a copyrighted package in the repository -Let Pd be a public domain package in the repository -Let Kc be the "key" of Pc -Let Kd be the "key" of Pd The keys are stored in the metadata of the packages, so we don't need to break any copyright laws to get them. Suppose we have the following operations: -E(Pc,P…

This is analogous to downloading some thing after encrypting it. Or a zip file with a password.

Its a clever hack though. Because you can always argue, that File you downloaded has meaningless contents and that some algorithm at your end is re arranging it as a meaningful form.

But the copyright enforcers can always argue this is a clever way of stealing something. More like smuggling a big thing by dividing into pieces and transporting them in surrogate objects.

Re: Police Raid 9-Year-Old Pirate Bay Girl

#136

Post by antidoh »

m_for_monkey wrote: post #63
antidoh wrote: post #60

Don't buy music controlled by the RIAA. Just don't. The only way to stop them is to starve them. They're major campaign contributors, so the law will never be on our side until they're gone. And by the way, don't download said music from sharing sites or friends. Artists need to see that we won't pay them any attention, with wallets or ears, if they associate with known extortionists.

No, artists need to see an alternative way of distribution to realize, how can they make it big without the "help" of leeches.

Artists need to come up with alternative distribution themselves if it's important to them.

Re: Police Raid 9-Year-Old Pirate Bay Girl

#137

Post by nikatwork »

ubershmekel wrote: post #110
pg wrote: post #107

This is the reductio ad absurdum of current law. We need to work more actively to make this sort of thing stop. There are a range of solutions. We could try to change the laws. We could develop technology that would make it harder to catch file-sharers. We could attack the labels directly by trying to pinch off the sources of their revenue. I'm not sure which would work the best. My guess is that they're better at ma…

http://bandcamp.com/ Edit: I'll explain. Cutting the middleman is the big idea though band camp isn't enough for that. The big labels have very strong marketing capabilities that individual acts can't compete with. Even YouTube, the land of indie, is dominated by the large labels. So maybe bandcamp needs a breakthrough marketing/distribution/discovery platform that can somehow be more meritocratic.

Bandcamp is glorious. I end up buying loads of music there because it's easy, high-quality and I feel like I'm supporting the artists directly, not just lining someone else's pockets.

Agree discovery is a problem. I rely on blogs for that but it's pretty niche.

Re: Police Raid 9-Year-Old Pirate Bay Girl

#138

Post by electromagnetic »

benohear wrote: post #116
pg wrote: post #107

This is the reductio ad absurdum of current law. We need to work more actively to make this sort of thing stop. There are a range of solutions. We could try to change the laws. We could develop technology that would make it harder to catch file-sharers. We could attack the labels directly by trying to pinch off the sources of their revenue. I'm not sure which would work the best. My guess is that they're better at ma…

How about a lawsuit insurance scheme? Pay $X per month and if you get sued the insurance company will take the case to court and pay any damages. This would kill the effortless €600 extortion scheme, and probably also DDOS the court system. Possible backfire: It makes the labels even more lawsuit happy knowing that there is a pile of cash there if they win, and / or the cash reserves of the insurance are not sufficie…

Actually this would likely be very effective. It's like the traffic-ticket lawyers. Even if you committed the crime, they normally severely reduce the penalty if not let you walk.

Cash piles mean nothing, going to court is extremely costly. The defence lawyers would be very good at their jobs. I know here in Canada, the Carter defence (using an expert, arguing that given bodyweight and the times of, and amount of alcohol consumption, that the machine was calibrated wrong) against DUI was made inadmissible - which is currently being fought on constitutional grounds - as it was 90% effective at giving a judge reasonable doubt when a person blew under a 0.14 (legal limit is 0.08, but suspension above 0.05). Now the lawyers are experts on breathalyzers, will get a court order providing them with all maintenance on the machines so they can argue directly that the machines are calibrated wrong. They're apparently getting the success rates up above 60% now.

Re: Police Raid 9-Year-Old Pirate Bay Girl

#139

Post by stfu »

kamaal wrote: post #135
contravert wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like the steganographic approach, and it could also work with a repository. Consider the following: -Let Pc be a copyrighted package in the repository -Let Pd be a public domain package in the repository -Let Kc be the "key" of Pc -Let Kd be the "key" of Pd The keys are stored in the metadata of the packages, so we don't need to break any copyright laws to get them. Suppose we have the following operations: -E(Pc,P…

This is analogous to downloading some thing after encrypting it. Or a zip file with a password. Its a clever hack though. Because you can always argue, that File you downloaded has meaningless contents and that some algorithm at your end is re arranging it as a meaningful form. But the copyright enforcers can always argue this is a clever way of stealing something. More like smuggling a big thing by dividing into pie…

Therefore it is key that the legitimate vs questionable content ratio is not getting too much out of balance.

I am sure it helped a lot for Megaupload's public perception that regular people actually used the service for sending files and were screaming about the government stealing their holiday videos. The narrative of the Torrentfreak story is awesome as it humanizes the subject and creates sympathy for the cause.

In an ideal case an approach would fill a minor existing need in a way that is impossible to separate from "other" content. I was trying to do this in the comment above by suggesting some form of torrent driven YouTube alternative (i.e. video embedding witin a browser), but contravert's encryption idea could really make this even more awesome.

Re: Police Raid 9-Year-Old Pirate Bay Girl

#140

Post by smsm42 »

aes256 wrote: post #66
ZoFreX wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would guess that they seized all of the computers in the house. Where I live (the UK), that seems to be SOP for crimes involving computers - they take your computers, gaming consoles, ipods... Oh, and you don't get them back.

Once investigations are complete you should have your property returned. As absurd as it sounds, it does make sense to seize all property capable of storing data, and that includes games consoles, iPods, etc.

Should != would. And there's also such thing as forfeiture - and with it, to confiscate, the government has only to have "probable cause", and then you have to prove that this property was not used for criminal purposes. They do not need to charge the owner in any crime - just to suspect him.
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