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Tesla's lithium refinery discharges 231,000 gallons of polluted wastewater a day

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Re: Tesla's lithium refinery discharges 231,000 gallons of polluted wastewater a day

#81
post #4

Obviously, discharging "dark and murky" polluted water is bad. But some of the figures from the lab report don't seem that terrible: * Hexavalent chromium at 0.0104 milligrams per liter, just above the lab’s reporting limit of 0.01 mg/L. Hexavalent chromium is classified as a known human carcinogen by the US National Toxicology Program. It is the substance the Erin Brockovich case was built around. * Arsenic at 0.002…

Sure; if you run a "hazardous substance processing" company, you just take up an enormous amount of clean water and enrich it with the maximum amounts of arsenic, chromium, etc, and charge your clients a nice penny.

Re: Tesla's lithium refinery discharges 231,000 gallons of polluted wastewater a day

#83

[flagged]

How is that a half truth? If you read the article it’s clear that this discharge is fully permitted and legal. All the substances they portray so shockingly were found at barely detectable levels.

I read the whole article and I don’t really understand what is being criticized, if not manufacturing itself. Do people think it’s possible to make a massive battery factory with zero industrial waste water output? Or do they think factories should only be in poor countries where they won’t have to think about them? If batteries stopped existing most people would be very unhappy, why be unwilling to pay the full cost of those substantial benefits?

Re: Tesla's lithium refinery discharges 231,000 gallons of polluted wastewater a day

#84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> we're under legal limits That's the definition of law. As long as it is legal it won't be charged.

What if the law is formulated to be convenient for corporations and not to protect the public and/or the environment?

Then we should work together as a society to fix the law and make sure it's applied evenly. Hard to do, but necessary.

Is there an alternative?

Re: Tesla's lithium refinery discharges 231,000 gallons of polluted wastewater a day

#85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> we're under legal limits That's the definition of law. As long as it is legal it won't be charged.

What if the law is formulated to be convenient for corporations and not to protect the public and/or the environment?

Then we should protest the law.

Re: Tesla's lithium refinery discharges 231,000 gallons of polluted wastewater a day

#87
post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i think they just meant "quietly" as in not notifying the Nueces County drainage department that a permit was granted in their area.

That must be it. I can see if they are normally published or announced publicly somewhere, then it makes sense but if it's not done for other permits then it's sounds like they are implying nefariousness.

my knowledge is from long ago, but, it would be expected for the state to communicate to the counties/cities about infrastructure permits such as this one. the counties/cities need to ensure their infrastructure planning accounts for everything in the area, regardless of the original permitting authority.

not sure if that is the standard in texas or not.

Re: Tesla's lithium refinery discharges 231,000 gallons of polluted wastewater a day

#88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I wanted to fall under that reporting limit, can I just dilute my wastewater a bit more?

That is how car manufacturers worked around the old tail pipe emission laws. They added air pumps plumbed to the exhaust manifold(s) to increase the exhaust mass diluting the stream enough to pass emissions tests. Problem solved!

>That is how car manufacturers worked around the old tail pipe emission laws. They added air pumps plumbed to the exhaust manifold(s) to increase the exhaust mass diluting the stream enough to pass emissions tests. Problem solved!

I'm sure that people of a certain bent will eat your comment up but that's just not true.

Air pumps were for catalyst efficiency. The old ones needed extra oxygen molecules floating around for the big stuff (hydrocarbons) to oxidize with until the catalyst was up to operating temp and working at peak-ish efficiency.

Emissions have been measured by mass rather than concentration since 1972. So like yeah it "could've been done" but standards before that were light enough that they could just screw with other things that add $0 to the BOM to clean it up enough to pass.

Re: Tesla's lithium refinery discharges 231,000 gallons of polluted wastewater a day

#89
post #4

Obviously, discharging "dark and murky" polluted water is bad. But some of the figures from the lab report don't seem that terrible: * Hexavalent chromium at 0.0104 milligrams per liter, just above the lab’s reporting limit of 0.01 mg/L. Hexavalent chromium is classified as a known human carcinogen by the US National Toxicology Program. It is the substance the Erin Brockovich case was built around. * Arsenic at 0.002…

So, it's fine as long as it's legal, then? How about when it enters the food chain and starts to accumulate? Will the elements say that "we're under legal limits, and accumulate slowly, so we will act nice and don't poison the organism we're in?" Love that way of thinking.

Emissions regulations are a balancing act. Industrial processes are inherently filthy. If you want copper, gold, lithium, or anything else that makes up the modern world, somewhere on earth was dirtied for that to be possible, and some of the pollution will get into the surroundings because zero emissions simply isn't possible. So we set certain levels of "acceptable emissions" as a balancing act.

I also agree that emissions should be tighter, but the location question is more interesting, because we can also choose where emissions happen.

For example, we might choose them to happen near cities/factories so the products are close to where they're used. We've mostly stopped doing that since the industrial revolution for pretty good reasons though. We could place them in the pristine landscapes not otherwise used by humans, like national parks. That's unpopular for hopefully obvious reasons. We could place them in sparsely inhabited deserts abroad, as Europeans did [0], before we collectively decided colonialism was a bad thing.

And lastly, we could place them in figurative deserts away from conservation land and people like monoculture farmland, but then we get to your question.

So, what's left? What are you suggesting as a better alternative?

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bou_Craa

Re: Tesla's lithium refinery discharges 231,000 gallons of polluted wastewater a day

#90

[flagged]

> That's why I was happy the chinese were doing it for a penny. This is what all those pennies earned them: https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20150402-the-worst-place-...

I was thinking about exactly that story when I read about this. It's all fine until it happens in your own backyard.
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