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Fecal transplants for autism deliver success in clinical trials (2019)

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Re: Fecal transplants for autism deliver success in clinical trials (2019)

#241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We usually call these our "safe foods" and yes, it is a very real problem for many of us in the autistic community, specifically around nutritional deficiencies. In a similar vein, as a child I went several years just eating plain Cheerios. For a close friend it was chicken nuggets.

Cheerios test high for Glyphosate, that’s not going to help any.

Glyphosate use didn't really explode in use until the genetic modification of "round up ready" crops in 1996.

The real danger was the havoc it'd play on my gut biome.

Re: Fecal transplants for autism deliver success in clinical trials (2019)

#242
post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s a bit late in your argument to plausibly claim you were joking, if that’s what you are implying; if that was your first reply I’d maybe have believed it. Outside of that, you did use English wrong; to a native speaker “Fecal transplants for autism deliver success in clinical trials” is obviously discussing an experimental treatment. There’s nothing outrageous or clickbait about it, it’s quite clear. Nobody said…

Never claimed I did. My first message, however, literally says the title is hilarious or outrageous, depending on your personality, all due to the ambiguity. I tried to make fun of it, which landed obviously flat. Well, what a shame. You're really trying a bit too hard to prove a point, being just slightly condescending in the process, giving strangers life advice all while missing to address the specific argumentati…

So you are in fact claiming you were joking? Why didn’t you say that from the start instead of arguing about English? For multiple messages in a row, there’s no indication you were making fun, and the big problem with the joke, the reason it was flat and nobody got it and you received downvotes, is because transplants for autism isn’t ambiguous to native speakers, which is the one and only point I was trying to prove. I didn’t mean to be condescending, I only meant to contradict your apparent insistence that ‘transplants for autism’ is easily misunderstood, because it’s not. I’m all for making fun of English; English is often ridiculous.

Gehst du wegen Medikamenten zum Arzt? Gehst du wegen Schmerzen zum Arzt? Gehst du wegen Medikamenten oder Schmerzen zum Arzt? ¿Vas al médico por medicamentos o por dolor? Allez-vous chez le médecin pour des médicaments ou pour la douleur? Ga je naar de dokter voor medicijnen of voor pijn?

Re: Fecal transplants for autism deliver success in clinical trials (2019)

#243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you know that is a “gut ecosystem collapse” as opposed to hypermotility? Or an overgrowth of the gut ecosystem? Or a problem with the intestinal lining? Observing that if you eat/drink something specific then you get the shits is valid. Concluding that it is due to a specific mechanism is not valid unless you have something objective like a test supporting that. It’s like if your train is late and you just con…

Ummm…because all of those symptoms you listed are symptoms of gut dysbiosis…? Why do you need to know what the mechanism is to avoid mistakes? - if something fucks you, don’t do it . Encourage others to do the same. Not a controversial take!

If you drop an ACME 100Kg anvil on your foot, you get a broken foot, and you can conclude "this fucked me, I won't do it again". But if you say "I suffered foot ecosystem collapse" and people ask you what that means and how you identified it, whinging about how people should stop asking stupid questions because all bad things are bad therefore they must be the same thing, is not helping anyone.

Re: Fecal transplants for autism deliver success in clinical trials (2019)

#244
post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Never claimed I did. My first message, however, literally says the title is hilarious or outrageous, depending on your personality, all due to the ambiguity. I tried to make fun of it, which landed obviously flat. Well, what a shame. You're really trying a bit too hard to prove a point, being just slightly condescending in the process, giving strangers life advice all while missing to address the specific argumentati…

So you are in fact claiming you were joking? Why didn’t you say that from the start instead of arguing about English? For multiple messages in a row, there’s no indication you were making fun, and the big problem with the joke, the reason it was flat and nobody got it and you received downvotes, is because transplants for autism isn’t ambiguous to native speakers, which is the one and only point I was trying to prove…

Oh, man, taking a win when the opponent concedes ground is no fun at all, right?

> So you are in fact claiming you were joking?

Never claimed so. The first message was making fun of the title (which should be obvious even to those struggling with nuance comprehension). It's, BTW, not exactly the same thing as joking. Everything posted further was pretty serious.

> instead of arguing about English

"Arguing about English" paints my part in the discussion in an overly aggressive light. I was mostly answering direct questions and disproving points that were aimed at me or my arguments.

> For multiple messages in a row, there’s no indication you were making fun.

It wasn't the theme of the discussion, reread it and look at what we were actually talking about. If you didn't parse my original message as playful, then, surely, the the fault is mine. I'll work on my eloquence. But I'd rather make a poor attempt at humour and let it fail than keep on repeating "this wasn't serious!" in every subsequent message.

> Because transplants for autism isn’t ambiguous to native speakers

Firstly, this is overgeneralization that you can't possibly posit as a fact, unless you're a linguist that happens to have the stats on hand.

Secondly, the crowd here is rather diverse, and I bet non-natives are not a negligible minority. At least for some of them the awkwardness of the condensed form chosen for the title is pretty obvious, as it was for me.

The bottom line here is the comprehension (including native) is never deterministic, but is context-driven. Temporary alternative parses (even if it converges to a specific interpretation with later context) is an established phenomenon which, to my taste, is a great source of fun. Though I admit this wasn't nearly my best attempt.

> I didn’t mean to be condescending

Then I don't believe you've succeeded. The problem is that you're arguing against a stronger claim than I’m making, whilst being just a bit too assertive, degrading the debate to lifestyle advice, etc.

---

Regarding your multilingual examples, you're most likely not native to a Romance language, because you're missing the distinction between, for example, "por" and "para" which do not translate directly to English "for", so your examples aren't as effective as you probably hoped. "Ir al medico por dolor" translates better to "to go to the doctor because of pain", not "for pain". Same with "wegen", it's literally "because of", not "for".

> I only meant to contradict your apparent insistence that ‘transplants for autism’ is easily misunderstood, because it’s not.

Never said "easily". However, you seem to be adamant on dismissing the two main points I repeatedly tried to get across and which are the reason I made fun of the title in the first place:

1. "Transplant" is a procedure or the result of thereof, it does not lexically encode remediation to the same extent "treatment" or "medication" do. You can transplant a third arm to a human, this won't be considering a health-improving procedure. To rephrase, "transplant" is not inherently therapeutic but is always an intrusive procedure.

2. Again, not everyone conceptualizes an "Autism" of an unknown severity as a condition in need of a treatment involving body-intrusive procedures!

These two facts make the "X for Z" not reliably triggering the "ibuprofen for headache" reading. Unfortunately, this doesn't happen for you so you just dismiss this fact and keep on pushing, instead of admitting there can be ambiguity. You'll surely agree, that it's the medicalized context doing the disambiguation for the concise form, not the syntax itself!

Consider a parallel linguistic construct: "implant for mind control". Would you still argue it's unambiguously "for countering mind control"?

Re: Fecal transplants for autism deliver success in clinical trials (2019)

#245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ummm…because all of those symptoms you listed are symptoms of gut dysbiosis…? Why do you need to know what the mechanism is to avoid mistakes? - if something fucks you, don’t do it . Encourage others to do the same. Not a controversial take!

If you drop an ACME 100Kg anvil on your foot, you get a broken foot, and you can conclude "this fucked me, I won't do it again". But if you say "I suffered foot ecosystem collapse" and people ask you what that means and how you identified it, whinging about how people should stop asking stupid questions because all bad things are bad therefore they must be the same thing, is not helping anyone.

Except, you intentionally replied up here, and not down below,

where you’d have to reply to “well-understood and basic mechanisms” being ignored.

Including the ones we know inhibit a healthy diverse microbiome!

Sticking with your chosen example:

If you lean an anvil on your foot, and start suffering from poor circulation or discoloration of the foot, remove the anvil.

Re: Fecal transplants for autism deliver success in clinical trials (2019)

#246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ummm…because all of those symptoms you listed are symptoms of gut dysbiosis…? Why do you need to know what the mechanism is to avoid mistakes? - if something fucks you, don’t do it . Encourage others to do the same. Not a controversial take!

If you drop an ACME 100Kg anvil on your foot, you get a broken foot, and you can conclude "this fucked me, I won't do it again". But if you say "I suffered foot ecosystem collapse" and people ask you what that means and how you identified it, whinging about how people should stop asking stupid questions because all bad things are bad therefore they must be the same thing, is not helping anyone.

> therefore they must be the same thing

Also, this bit is a non-factual read (don’t put words in my mouth, mate, I choose them carefully).

An uncharitable, bad-faith interpretation at best.

Re: Fecal transplants for autism deliver success in clinical trials (2019)

#247
post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you are in fact claiming you were joking? Why didn’t you say that from the start instead of arguing about English? For multiple messages in a row, there’s no indication you were making fun, and the big problem with the joke, the reason it was flat and nobody got it and you received downvotes, is because transplants for autism isn’t ambiguous to native speakers, which is the one and only point I was trying to prove…

Oh, man, taking a win when the opponent concedes ground is no fun at all, right? > So you are in fact claiming you were joking? Never claimed so. The first message was making fun of the title (which should be obvious even to those struggling with nuance comprehension). It's, BTW, not exactly the same thing as joking. Everything posted further was pretty serious. > instead of arguing about English "Arguing about Engli…

> The first message was making fun of the title ... It's, BTW, not exactly the same thing as joking.

Oh, really? Why do you believe that?

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/make-...

To make fun of: “to make a joke about someone or something in a way that is not kind”

Re: Fecal transplants for autism deliver success in clinical trials (2019)

#248
post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh, man, taking a win when the opponent concedes ground is no fun at all, right? > So you are in fact claiming you were joking? Never claimed so. The first message was making fun of the title (which should be obvious even to those struggling with nuance comprehension). It's, BTW, not exactly the same thing as joking. Everything posted further was pretty serious. > instead of arguing about English "Arguing about Engli…

> The first message was making fun of the title ... It's, BTW, not exactly the same thing as joking. Oh, really? Why do you believe that? https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/make-... To make fun of: “to make a joke about someone or something in a way that is not kind”

Even if you operate only by the given definition, it directly states one is a subset of the other.

Given that you're just selectively nitpicking by now, I don't think you're really trying to engage in a meaningful conversation, so I'm done. Thanks anyway, you've prompted me to reflect upon many topics and verbalize some things that usually stay internal.

Re: Fecal transplants for autism deliver success in clinical trials (2019)

#249
post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The first message was making fun of the title ... It's, BTW, not exactly the same thing as joking. Oh, really? Why do you believe that? https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/make-... To make fun of: “to make a joke about someone or something in a way that is not kind”

Even if you operate only by the given definition, it directly states one is a subset of the other. Given that you're just selectively nitpicking by now, I don't think you're really trying to engage in a meaningful conversation, so I'm done. Thanks anyway, you've prompted me to reflect upon many topics and verbalize some things that usually stay internal.

Yes making fun is a subset of joking, so when I ask if you’re joking and you say no and argue, you’re being at best intentionally obtuse, and also incorrect about English word meanings. This isn’t nitpicking, I’m revealing the root cause of miscommunication in this entire thread.

Re: Fecal transplants for autism deliver success in clinical trials (2019)

#250
post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which part of this you think is a joke?

It was either a genuine ableist comment or a ham fisted attempt at sarcasm poking fun at ableist folks. I see now it was the former. Edit: Pre-empting the inevitable "how is this ableist?": I don't mind the use of a reclaimed slur, I'm a big proponent of that, tbh. I use them all the time. What's ableist is the idea that spouses have to deal with their partners. The idea the autism must be a negative in a relationshi…

broseph, lowkey you need to read a little about emotional regulation, this person was not trying to disrespect anyone
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