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'The Hobbit' at 48fps: Frame Rates Explained

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Re: 'The Hobbit' at 48fps: Frame Rates Explained

#71
post #48

60fps isn't even that good in video games, but so many gamers these days have been raised on 60Hz consoles and PC monitors. They don't remember the old days of CRTs, where 60Hz was painfully flickery, and you wanted at least 75Hz to relieve eye strain. 75 or 85Hz with corresponding fps was much slicker than 60Hz. IMO the purists complaining about 48Hz are complaining about a subconscious association, perhaps a bit li…

The reason a CRT seems to flicker with low refresh rates is because the screen goes dark in between beam traces, a LCD does not. So a static image on a LCD with 60 Hz refresh rate is stable whereas a CRT would flicker at that rate.

Re: 'The Hobbit' at 48fps: Frame Rates Explained

#72
post #52
post #48

60fps isn't even that good in video games, but so many gamers these days have been raised on 60Hz consoles and PC monitors. They don't remember the old days of CRTs, where 60Hz was painfully flickery, and you wanted at least 75Hz to relieve eye strain. 75 or 85Hz with corresponding fps was much slicker than 60Hz. IMO the purists complaining about 48Hz are complaining about a subconscious association, perhaps a bit li…

You are mixing display refresh rates and frame rates, which are not necessarily related 1:1.

No, I'm not, but I haven't expressed it very well. I always run vsync, and I don't run games at settings where fps < refresh rate.

Re: 'The Hobbit' at 48fps: Frame Rates Explained

#73
post #71
post #48

60fps isn't even that good in video games, but so many gamers these days have been raised on 60Hz consoles and PC monitors. They don't remember the old days of CRTs, where 60Hz was painfully flickery, and you wanted at least 75Hz to relieve eye strain. 75 or 85Hz with corresponding fps was much slicker than 60Hz. IMO the purists complaining about 48Hz are complaining about a subconscious association, perhaps a bit li…

The reason a CRT seems to flicker with low refresh rates is because the screen goes dark in between beam traces, a LCD does not. So a static image on a LCD with 60 Hz refresh rate is stable whereas a CRT would flicker at that rate.

It's much more than that; the flickery 60Hz CRT is only incidental, it doesn't relate to the perception of smoothness. Like a sibling comment to yours says, it's very noticeable with the mouse, and even more so when moving around a window on the desktop. It looks like crappy stop-motion animation compared to what it can be at higher frame rates.

Re: 'The Hobbit' at 48fps: Frame Rates Explained

#74
post #67
post #48

60fps isn't even that good in video games, but so many gamers these days have been raised on 60Hz consoles and PC monitors. They don't remember the old days of CRTs, where 60Hz was painfully flickery, and you wanted at least 75Hz to relieve eye strain. 75 or 85Hz with corresponding fps was much slicker than 60Hz. IMO the purists complaining about 48Hz are complaining about a subconscious association, perhaps a bit li…

As micampe said, you're mixing refresh rates with frame rates, but actually you aren't entirely wrong, because I remember the heady days of upgrading my graphics card and having Counter-Strike hit 100-120 frames per second on my 120 Hz CRT monitor, and the visual difference was very noticeable vs. when I was back in 60fps zone. The main visual difference was when rapidly moving the mouse; turning quickly was much mor…

Thanks for letting me know I'm not entirely wrong. I was just waiting for your personal validation.

Re: 'The Hobbit' at 48fps: Frame Rates Explained

#75
post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As in so many creative endeavours it's the limitations which make the art. It's not always about going for perfection, but it always has to be emotional. Which is a more powerful statement? This: http://virgo.bibl.u-szeged.hu/wm/paint/auth/monet/parliament... or this: http://isitthattime.files.wordpress.com/2011/11/fog-over-the... There's no question that the latter is more technically accurate, more lifelike, more r…

It's one thing to creatively take advantage of limitations to make art better. It's quite another to insist that an arbitrary limitation must be present on every work, regardless of whether it's good or not. If 24fps is somehow good for certain types of film, then by all means, keep using it. But it's silly to say that 24fps is universally better, as I've heard some people say.

I can't disagree with that Mike. Absolutes have no place in art.

Re: 'The Hobbit' at 48fps: Frame Rates Explained

#76
post #74
post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As micampe said, you're mixing refresh rates with frame rates, but actually you aren't entirely wrong, because I remember the heady days of upgrading my graphics card and having Counter-Strike hit 100-120 frames per second on my 120 Hz CRT monitor, and the visual difference was very noticeable vs. when I was back in 60fps zone. The main visual difference was when rapidly moving the mouse; turning quickly was much mor…

Thanks for letting me know I'm not entirely wrong. I was just waiting for your personal validation.

I meant that even though you appeared to be confusing refresh rate with frame rate, and certainly higher refresh rates made things look a lot better on old CRTs, higher frame rates than the max 60 fps possible on today's average LCDs* actually make a difference as well.

*(only "3D-capable" LCDs run at 120 Hz or 240 Hz and are therefore capable of actually showing more than 60 frames per second).

Re: 'The Hobbit' at 48fps: Frame Rates Explained

#77
post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He discusses the difference between 1080i and 1080p which is exactly the difference you are talking about. Interlaced vs whole frame. Not all TV's have scan lines. Any that are 1080p do not interlace.

You and the person voting me down seem to be missing the point of what I'm saying. A piece of film is illuminated and shown fully on the screen. There is no scan line. A TV is drawn one line at a time. There is a scan line. Interlaced vs Non-Interlaced has nothing to do with what I am talking about as both draw one line at a time. Interlaced just means it draws half the first tick and half the second tick. Non-interl…

I accidentally downvoted your original post, but of course there's no way to reverse that. :( (Some of HN's design baffles me.)

Re: 'The Hobbit' at 48fps: Frame Rates Explained

#78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As in so many creative endeavours it's the limitations which make the art. It's not always about going for perfection, but it always has to be emotional. Which is a more powerful statement? This: http://virgo.bibl.u-szeged.hu/wm/paint/auth/monet/parliament... or this: http://isitthattime.files.wordpress.com/2011/11/fog-over-the... There's no question that the latter is more technically accurate, more lifelike, more r…

Disclaimer: I am not an art expert. You point is well taken, but just as a minor nit, I wanted to add that artists did achieve photorealism first and then move on to abstractness. Arguably, that was driven by the advent of photography which commoditized photorealism.

Fair point. Impressionism was in no small part a reaction to the overly stuffy and formal schools of realistic painting of the time. You've made me think: I wonder how much photography contributed to their frustration with that academic painting style?

But still, painting is painting. Take the Dutch Old Masters: incredibly realistic, lifelike pictures, but also extraordinarily powerful. One doesn't preclude the other, but in every case something about the medium contributes to its power. It might be the fact that a sitter for one of Caravaggio's Christs was actually suffering due to holding his body in place for so long; it could be a need to invent some aspect of light in a scene which ends up illuminating a girl's face in a particularly lovely way.

There's plenty of emotion in photography, too, but it tends to come as a result of skilful use of that medium's own characteristics: spontaneity, completeness, and presence. Press photographs are a great example, exploiting the medium's immediacy to steal a few, shocking milliseconds of reality. That applies even to powerful landscape photographs, in the opposite way: They are very carefully staged, manipulated and contrived, all simply a way to align the limitations of the medium (only 1/500th of a second to make an image) with a particularly beautiful instant of passing space-time.

Re: 'The Hobbit' at 48fps: Frame Rates Explained

#79
post #54
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My guess would be that the ad network they are using doesn't give anything for German views/hits. So they are saving on traffic costs. If it were the case that they have some local brand (as is the case when you can't buy music/games/etc online), it would probably redirect somewhere else as Google.

It looks like they redirect in JS. That's after most page assests are loaded, so it won't save much bandwidth.

Huh, that's true. Maybe they just don't like Germans then.

Re: 'The Hobbit' at 48fps: Frame Rates Explained

#80
post #71
post #48

60fps isn't even that good in video games, but so many gamers these days have been raised on 60Hz consoles and PC monitors. They don't remember the old days of CRTs, where 60Hz was painfully flickery, and you wanted at least 75Hz to relieve eye strain. 75 or 85Hz with corresponding fps was much slicker than 60Hz. IMO the purists complaining about 48Hz are complaining about a subconscious association, perhaps a bit li…

The reason a CRT seems to flicker with low refresh rates is because the screen goes dark in between beam traces, a LCD does not. So a static image on a LCD with 60 Hz refresh rate is stable whereas a CRT would flicker at that rate.

60Hz also synchronizes with the 60Hz flicker of fluorescent lights, which is especially bothersome.
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