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U.S. DOJ demands Apple and Google unmask over 100k users of car-tinkering app

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Re: U.S. DOJ demands Apple and Google unmask over 100k users of car-tinkering app

#321

Post by Spooky23 »

marysol5 wrote: post #299
mmh0000 wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Utah used to require safety inspections every year, but they eliminated them; there were no noticeable side effects [1]. "Safety Inspections" were generally just a grift for third-party repairshops to collect free money and I couldn't be happier that they are no longer a thing. Be aware that "safety" and "emissions" are different. Emissions testing is still required biannually for newish vehicles and yearly for older…

"Free Money" from what? If they don't need repairing, they can't get it? We have yearly inspections in the UK (twice yearly for any "public" carrying, like a taxi). If your vehicle is in working order you only pay the £39 fee

If it’s due on June 1, most people show up at the last minute. So you have time pressure which makes you vulnerable to upsell.

My girlfriend almost got swindled by this. She needed brake pads and rotors, and they tried to slide unnecessary fluid changes and other stuff. Like replacing a $14 air filter for $120.

Re: U.S. DOJ demands Apple and Google unmask over 100k users of car-tinkering app

#322

Post by therobots927 »

650REDHAIR wrote: post #205
midtake wrote: post #93

This "car-tinkering app" is used as a glorified GameShark for deleting factory emissions controls, I don't feel sorry for anyone who uses this to roll coal or whatever. Instead of investigating everyone on the list of users of this app, should the government instead ban diesel engines knowing their emissions controls software will be defeated? Should environmental regulations be relaxed? What is really the solution h…

Or, I don't know, enforce current laws on the books and have cops do their job? I've watched traffic code enforcement drop to essentially non-existent numbers largely because apathetical agencies and "officer safety" concerns. I'd rather they go after people actively rolling coal instead of violating the rights of thousands of Americans like me.

Well if they don’t want to get defunded they better start doing their jobs. Not that they were all that useful in the first place. If your house is getting broken into the cops will not be able to help you. So I don’t know what the big deal is about defunding the police. It’s not clear to me what the money is being used for.

Re: U.S. DOJ demands Apple and Google unmask over 100k users of car-tinkering app

#323

Post by ryeights »

emdash wrote: post #270
ryeights wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I understand and I don't care. Your personal interests as a diesel truck driver don't override others' interests in health and clean air

Refusing to understand something and are making an uninformed decision as a result isn't a great thing to brag about. The fact is, emissions regulations in many ways have nothing to do with health or clean air. I don't drive a diesel truck myself so its not like I'm trying to defend my own behavior or anything. I'm a former automotive engineer who is unfortunately very familiar with the regulations and how nonsensica…

So you’re trying to tell me that NOx and diesel particulates are not harmful to human health?

Re: U.S. DOJ demands Apple and Google unmask over 100k users of car-tinkering app

#324

Post by 9x39 »

ryandrake wrote: post #231
whalesalad wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm realizing a lot of folks in this thread do not understand diesel emissions systems at all and why you might want to delete one.

Site full of hackers who would fight to the death over open source and their ability to run their computers the way they want to, but when it’s about car enthusiasts instead of computer enthusiasts, suddenly nobody cares.

Right to repair, unless it’s got a carbon footprint.

Re: U.S. DOJ demands Apple and Google unmask over 100k users of car-tinkering app

#325

Post by 9x39 »

oofbey wrote: post #198

This app has legitimate uses (custom tune performance on their engines) and also makes it easy to do illegal things. (Defeat emissions controls and roll coal.) The people who are using it to do illegal things are crying “privacy!” People who break the law generally do want less government power, more anonymity, etc. Sometimes they’ll argue the law is wrong and they should be allowed to break it, but I don’t think we’…

The laptop crowd and the car crowd have little overlap, which explains the collective amnesia around rights and skepticism of authority that’s normally present.

Re: U.S. DOJ demands Apple and Google unmask over 100k users of car-tinkering app

#326

Post by Computer0 »

paulryanrogers wrote: post #214
Computer0 wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who lives in a state that got rid of emissions testing before I could drive it sounds like a horrifying thing to have to deal with.

Why is it horrifying? I've taken cars in for testing for years. It's pretty quick and painless.

All my Vehicles are many decades older. I think it would impose a financial burden on many in my community who also have older vehicles (less financially well off) to get them up to 'spec'. The vast majority of cars are newer and would have no issue passing.

Re: U.S. DOJ demands Apple and Google unmask over 100k users of car-tinkering app

#327

Post by temp8830 »

Retric wrote: post #290
fc417fc802 wrote: post #286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So you’d essentially be giving up on enforcement Yes, that is precisely what I was suggesting. At least in the general case. Spot enforcement of notable cases when witnessed (such as the aforementioned coal rolling) seems like a good idea to me. It comes down to the cost benefit tradeoff. Most cars will be used as sold, will be kept in good repair, and will eventually be scrapped due to a failure unrelated to the e…

> I'm entirely unconvinced that regular testing leads to an overall improvement large enough to matter assuming sufficient requirements were imposed on the vehicle at the time of manufacture. Only ~95% of cars pass emissions tests last year (it varies by state). As each car is tested several times over its lifespan you’ll find the majority of IC cars eventually need something fixed to reduce smog. This isn’t some wil…

But that's 95% of cars that didn't need to be tested. All that the testing requirement does is reinforce the (correct) public's perception that it's a free money scheme. If the "check engine" light is not on in a modern car it's pretty much good to go.

When cars do need an emissions related fix, it's almost always that little charcoal canister that people flood with gas because nobody told them why it's a bad idea to top off the tank after the first click.

Re: U.S. DOJ demands Apple and Google unmask over 100k users of car-tinkering app

#328

Post by wutwutwat »

embedding-shape wrote: post #3

> The government says it needs this information to identify and interview witnesses who can testify about how the tools were actually used. Why start this whole thing, if you don't already have this information and have people willing to help you as witnesses? Sounds to me they're saying they don't have this already, but why is this investigation happening in the first place then? Rather than finding every user of th…

Testing the fences... if they can get away with access to all the dataz, why settle for some of the dataz...

Re: U.S. DOJ demands Apple and Google unmask over 100k users of car-tinkering app

#329

Post by Retric »

temp8830 wrote: post #327
Retric wrote: post #290

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm entirely unconvinced that regular testing leads to an overall improvement large enough to matter assuming sufficient requirements were imposed on the vehicle at the time of manufacture. Only ~95% of cars pass emissions tests last year (it varies by state). As each car is tested several times over its lifespan you’ll find the majority of IC cars eventually need something fixed to reduce smog. This isn’t some wil…

But that's 95% of cars that didn't need to be tested. All that the testing requirement does is reinforce the (correct) public's perception that it's a free money scheme. If the "check engine" light is not on in a modern car it's pretty much good to go. When cars do need an emissions related fix, it's almost always that little charcoal canister that people flood with gas because nobody told them why it's a bad idea to…

> But that's 95% of cars that didn't need to be tested.

That would only be true if the government was aware of which cars were in the 95% ahead of time. The fact that so many cars fail means even the driver isn’t sure let alone the government.

Even cars significantly newer than the average age of cars on the road regularly fail the emissions tests without any obvious issues ahead of time. Which means without testing you don’t know which cars will pass.

Re: U.S. DOJ demands Apple and Google unmask over 100k users of car-tinkering app

#330

Post by ericmay »

iamnothere wrote: post #235
ericmay wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your understanding about how this works is incorrect, I think that's the problem. If a product being sold is primarily being used for a purpose which violates the law and does not otherwise have fair usage the government can and has pursued and won legal cases resulting in the product being banned. That is no different here. The reason for interviewing consumers is to help determine what the product is being used for…

> If the vast majority of the time the roll of duct tape was used in the commission of a crime, it absolutely could and likely would be banned. This is the same argument they use in the UK to ban things like long knives or realistic airsoft guns. We don’t really do that here in the US. Activists often try, but eventually the laws get struck down.

I'm not entirely familiar with the arguments used by the UK, but in the US neither long knives or realistic airsoft guns are used for wide scale law-breaking. That would probably be the key difference.
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