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U.S. DOJ demands Apple and Google unmask over 100k users of car-tinkering app

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Re: U.S. DOJ demands Apple and Google unmask over 100k users of car-tinkering app

#231

Post by ryandrake »

whalesalad wrote: post #185
ryeights wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So what? It's anti-social behavior. What thought does the deleted diesel truck driver give to his fellow citizens, whose otherwise reliable respiratory systems are weakened and made more susceptible to failure by toxic fumes and particulates?

I'm realizing a lot of folks in this thread do not understand diesel emissions systems at all and why you might want to delete one.

Site full of hackers who would fight to the death over open source and their ability to run their computers the way they want to, but when it’s about car enthusiasts instead of computer enthusiasts, suddenly nobody cares.

Re: U.S. DOJ demands Apple and Google unmask over 100k users of car-tinkering app

#232

Post by traderj0e »

ryandrake wrote: post #231
whalesalad wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm realizing a lot of folks in this thread do not understand diesel emissions systems at all and why you might want to delete one.

Site full of hackers who would fight to the death over open source and their ability to run their computers the way they want to, but when it’s about car enthusiasts instead of computer enthusiasts, suddenly nobody cares.

Idk if this makes it better or worse, but I won't fight to the death over open source/hardware, I've got Apple stuff. It's also not the same thing because computers don't pollute like cars.

Re: U.S. DOJ demands Apple and Google unmask over 100k users of car-tinkering app

#233

Post by rectang »

pattrn wrote: post #213
rectang wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I understand correctly, the trucker was set up to roll coal on other people, and only made an exception for this specific kid on a bike. It's not "unhinged" to stand up for others who have been targeted even while you were spared — it's just common decency.

Is there some way of knowing a truck is set up to "roll coal"? If not, then this could just be the OP thinking poorly of someone just trying to drive carefully around a family. It would be jumping to a very pessimistic conclusion without evidence.

That's possible, and I hedged a bit with an "if I understand correctly" because it was unclear to me how reliable the "coal roller" assessment was.

But if the bike rider's judgement was mistaken, the only consequence seems to have been that a driver of a diesel truck had ill wished upon them from afar. There's no mention of the truck getting reported to the police, and I speculate that the bike rider, as someone capable of recognizing the truck driver's good intent, might be cautious about escalating.

Nevertheless I'm sure that there will be those who continue to see the bike rider as an "unhinged" monster.

Re: U.S. DOJ demands Apple and Google unmask over 100k users of car-tinkering app

#234

Post by fc417fc802 »

dylan604 wrote: post #190
IncreasePosts wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here in Colorado we have a new anti coal rolling law, with a hotline you can call it in on. You know what happens when you call it in? The government sends a letter to the registered address of the truck saying, basically "Hey! Your emissions are very wasteful, you should get that checked out!". Glad California seems to have some teeth to the emissions laws.

Seems about as effective as could be though. By the time you see them doing it, it's already cleared up by the time you pull out your phone to video it to use as evidence. So this is pretty much acknowledging that it would be ripe for abuse if it had any actual consequence.

Patiently collect multiple (say 3) independent reports of the same plate. Have the police show up for a surprise physical inspection (free of charge naturally). Track the sources and targets of reports to watch for any abuse.

Re: U.S. DOJ demands Apple and Google unmask over 100k users of car-tinkering app

#235

Post by iamnothere »

ericmay wrote: post #157
AnthonyMouse wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How else do you get what might be illegal products off the shelves? Your premise is that there is a difference in the product. The product is a piece of hardware that connects your phone/laptop to the car's computer. Are you using it to program the computer to bleed the brakes, or are you using it to program the computer to defeat emissions tests? It's the same hardware dongle either way. A roll of duct tape isn't…

Your understanding about how this works is incorrect, I think that's the problem. If a product being sold is primarily being used for a purpose which violates the law and does not otherwise have fair usage the government can and has pursued and won legal cases resulting in the product being banned. That is no different here. The reason for interviewing consumers is to help determine what the product is being used for…

> If the vast majority of the time the roll of duct tape was used in the commission of a crime, it absolutely could and likely would be banned.

This is the same argument they use in the UK to ban things like long knives or realistic airsoft guns. We don’t really do that here in the US. Activists often try, but eventually the laws get struck down.

Re: U.S. DOJ demands Apple and Google unmask over 100k users of car-tinkering app

#236

Post by caminante »

rootusrootus wrote: post #192
caminante wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is your understanding of the Act and its limitations [0]? Here's a legal view that explains it further [1]. Basically, they can deny warranty service if you make modifications, and they can tie it to a failure. You can add 100s of HP to your engine profile with these things, and why would it be reasonable to expect a manufacturer to warrant related component repairs if they're pushed beyond spec? Here are releva…

> What is your understanding of the Act and its limitations They can deny a claim. You can challenge that, they will need to prove the modification caused the defect. They cannot void your warranty, in whole or in part. The most they can do is make a note of your modification and then use that as a reference going forward to deny individual claims as they happen. You might argue that they are likely to win those clai…

> They cannot void your warranty, in whole or in part.

I understand what you're saying, but your core beef seems really pedantic in context.

Yes, the warranty terms aren't abandoned, but...

..."voided" isn't a defined term, it's not used anywhere in the Magnusson-Moss Warranty Act (from my scan), I sourced an attorney using "voiding" in a more casual sense, and you even acknowledge that in practice, you're screwed if you tune your car, get caught by the dealer/manufacturer, and have issues with relevant components.

Re: U.S. DOJ demands Apple and Google unmask over 100k users of car-tinkering app

#237

Post by traderj0e »

ryandrake wrote: post #226
traderj0e wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't really care how it affects car modders or people with sports cars. I have a sports car, and yeah the California smog test has been super annoying cause of electrical problems with that are unrelated to its actual emissions, but I knew what I was getting into when I bought something known for unreliability. Fixed it myself. There's a dude across the street with a modded car who always complains he has to bribe…

I had to sell by beloved modded sports car when I moved to California. It blew clean as a whistle, but since the aftermarket parts were all from out of state (installed over the course of years), the state failed it as “tampered.” What a pile of shit. These guys are somehow driving around rolling coal on cyclists without getting grief, but I have to get rid of my car because it doesn’t have the right CA stamp on the…

Sucks, but it's the cost of having different standards. Same thing happens trying to import random cars to the US.

Re: U.S. DOJ demands Apple and Google unmask over 100k users of car-tinkering app

#238

Post by triceratops »

hedora wrote: post #221
cogman10 wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not to my understanding. Libertarian protections are from my understanding all about the quantifiable damages that were done by any given action. They don't usually go beyond that. That's why most libertarians would be in favor of blowing asbestos insulation with the thought that "well, eventually the mesothelioma victims will sue which will stop the practice". You couldn't preemptively sue, however, as you don't hav…

You're describing Corporatist Libertarians. Traditional Libertarians: No organization (government or otherwise) should be large enough or powerful enough to infringe on anyone's liberties. Corporatist Libertarians: No government should be powerful enough to infringe on the liberties of corporations. Corporatism has taken over about 50% of the Democrat, Republican and Libertarian parties. They're what people usually m…

> Traditional Libertarians: No organization (government or otherwise) should be large enough or powerful enough to infringe on anyone's liberties.

But how?

Re: U.S. DOJ demands Apple and Google unmask over 100k users of car-tinkering app

#239

Post by cogman10 »

iamnothere wrote: post #216
cogman10 wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not to my understanding. Libertarian protections are from my understanding all about the quantifiable damages that were done by any given action. They don't usually go beyond that. That's why most libertarians would be in favor of blowing asbestos insulation with the thought that "well, eventually the mesothelioma victims will sue which will stop the practice". You couldn't preemptively sue, however, as you don't hav…

You are perhaps confusing libertarians with anarcho-capitalists. Ancaps are a subset of libertarians. I think among other right-wing libertarian varieties there is a broader spectrum of beliefs, and left-wing libertarians generally would not support anything that pollutes the commons (although they would disagree about the best means of preventing such pollution).

Left libertarians, while they exist, are definitely a minority opinion.

But I'd say that they also don't have a good solution to this problem as it requires more centralized enforcement to really make a difference. A tribal council shunning the polluter or even ejecting them from the community isn't likely to result in them stopping their behavior. Not unless a huge portion of the world adopts that government (which is unlikely).

Re: U.S. DOJ demands Apple and Google unmask over 100k users of car-tinkering app

#240

Post by porknubbins »

forshaper wrote: post #189
dylan604 wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm in Texas, and I get coal rolled multiple times a year while I'm riding my bike. One asshat actually hit my shoulder with his extended mirror. After that, I started using my GoPro as a dashcam since I wasn't able to get the asshat's license plate number.

Man I got hit so many times as a cyclist in TX and GA. It took me awhile to realize that in GA, it was sometimes intentional. I hadn't realized how much bicyclists were disliked.

I don’t known if its the heat or lack of greenery but everything I hear about riding bikes or motocycles in Texas just makes it sounds like there is some deep latent aggression there. I have bicycled in a bunch of states including the Southeast and never encountered anything like the stories people tell about Texas.
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