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Frontier AI has broken the open CTF format

kabir.au

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Re: Frontier AI has broken the open CTF format

#51

Post by [deleted] »

r4indeer wrote: post #42

I'm conflicted on the use of AI in CTFs. On the one hand, they are supposed to mirror real-life scenarios, so of course you should be able to use any tool that would be available to you in real life. On the other hand, CTFs are fundamentally a game and a competition which are supposed to be fun and compare and improve ones skill. So when I let an LLM generate the entire solution for me, what's the point anymore? I di…

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Re: Frontier AI has broken the open CTF format

#52

Post by tylerchilds »

sheept wrote: post #35
kevinsimper wrote: post #18

You could make it offline and with provided laptops only, just like with the competitive CS2 scene.

Offline CTFs could also incorporate physical security challenges, like lockpicking

I do like the idea of escape the room games becoming the cybersecurity employable competition meta

Re: Frontier AI has broken the open CTF format

#53

Post by chrismorgan »

Meta: this was submitted with the article’s title “The CTF scene is dead” which I found very easy to understand. It has just been updated to use the subtitle’s first sentence, “Frontier AI has broken the open CTF format”. I find that much harder to grasp, rather like a garden-path sentence. My immediate thoughts were that “Frontier” was a company name, and that there was some file format named CTF. If you don’t know about Capture The Flag contests, the change doesn’t help. If you do, I think the change makes it worse.

Re: Frontier AI has broken the open CTF format

#55

Post by k__ »

daymanstep wrote: post #50
baq wrote: post #44

Replace ‘CTF’ with ‘high school’ or ‘university’ and you’ve described the total slow motion collapse of education; the only saving grace is that most of it requires in person presence. We’ve figured out the human replacement pipeline it seems, but we haven’t figured out the eduction part. LLMs can be wonderful teachers, but the temptation to just tell it ‘do it for me’ is almost impossible to resist.

Wonderful teachers that give unreliable information with total confidence?

Anti-intellectualism is at it again, hu?

Re: Frontier AI has broken the open CTF format

#56

Post by pjc50 »

baq wrote: post #44

Replace ‘CTF’ with ‘high school’ or ‘university’ and you’ve described the total slow motion collapse of education; the only saving grace is that most of it requires in person presence. We’ve figured out the human replacement pipeline it seems, but we haven’t figured out the eduction part. LLMs can be wonderful teachers, but the temptation to just tell it ‘do it for me’ is almost impossible to resist.

"Education is just a CTF for the valuable flag of a credential. In this essay I will --"

Re: Frontier AI has broken the open CTF format

#57

Post by motbus3 »

I think soon there will be ways to trick this models and I think when it happens it will be yet another layer like aslr

These models seems completely unbeatable only in the ads. There are 100+ times way someone puts Hindi Yoda talk In Morse Code and it goes nuts. The reason they are going to hard for PR Marketing on this is because they know it is a matter of time.

Re: Frontier AI has broken the open CTF format

#58

Post by Bawoosette »

daymanstep wrote: post #50
baq wrote: post #44

Replace ‘CTF’ with ‘high school’ or ‘university’ and you’ve described the total slow motion collapse of education; the only saving grace is that most of it requires in person presence. We’ve figured out the human replacement pipeline it seems, but we haven’t figured out the eduction part. LLMs can be wonderful teachers, but the temptation to just tell it ‘do it for me’ is almost impossible to resist.

Wonderful teachers that give unreliable information with total confidence?

To be fair, that was much of my actual experience with human professors in university.

Re: Frontier AI has broken the open CTF format

#59

Post by SirHumphrey »

Competitive programming scene always included offline competition and with AI they are becoming more important (and in general they were more fair even before). If CTFs are to survive, they should probably try to adopt this strategy.

You could even go so far that anything loaded on your computer is fair game, but not more than that (certain competitive programming competition for example allow unlimited amount of paper material - for CTFs you probably need much more than that, therefore electronic).

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