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The main thing about P2P meth is that there's so much of it (2021)

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Re: The main thing about P2P meth is that there's so much of it (2021)

#101

Post by chadgpt3 »

hash872 wrote: post #34
keepamovin wrote: post #10

The ephedrine (or pseudoephedrine) synthesis is a one step using phosphorus/iodine reduction directly to methamphetamine. It’s simple and clean in that only an acid base extraction is required, and only one set of NP solvents. All these others syntheses with multiple steps up the chances of weird toxic solvents or contaminants creeping in. I think it’s a contaminant issue that’s exacerbated by the drug use. The gover…

>The government should just regulate it, control purity and production and let people access small amounts for recreation/performance Famously, the US spent about 15-20 years attempting this with opioids. They were widely available to people via a pseudo-medical process, or via secondhand dealing. Opioids were/are manufactured by regulated, publicly traded companies with inspectors who controlled purity and productio…

What if they were legal but hard to get? Say, we stop/arresting for possession or use in private, stop giving dealers and producers harsh sentences, but still give them moderate to weak sentences, stop proactively searching for dealers and producers, allow companies to produce with strict KYC, and don't allow retail sale in stores?

Re: The main thing about P2P meth is that there's so much of it (2021)

#102

Post by chadgpt3 »

bityard wrote: post #97
33MHz-i486 wrote: post #89

the problems with the meth epidemic are 3 fold. two problems are intrinsic to meth and one is a matter of public policy. 1) meth is highly addictive and there is no pharmacological intervention for that addiction. there is no clinically effective therapeutic treatment for it either 2) meth is neurodegenerative. heavy users end up with a permanent disability 3) at some point around 2010 a bunch of cities decided it wa…

Small towns in North America are are being decimated by meth. The drug dealers move in because there are no drug task forces, just underfunded and ill-equipped sheriffs and local police. My wife and I live in the suburbs now but grew up in a very rural community. Last year we went to a wedding there. It was shocking how many people under the age of 50 were missing half their teeth.

Is it the government's job to enforce people's teeth? I presume you also observed something worse than that but chose not to write about it?

Re: The main thing about P2P meth is that there's so much of it (2021)

#103

Post by flomo »

keepamovin wrote: post #60
cryzinger wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think another under-discussed factor in the opioid crisis is that opioids are cheap, but (American) healthcare to treat underlying pain is not. You might not be able to afford six weeks of physical therapy, surgery, etc., but you can probably afford $11.23 a month for a generic prescription.

My view of a lot of the opioid crisis stuff aside from physical pain is psychological trauma - people self medicating as an alternative to doing the work. That’s why I think the psychoactive legislation that’s introduced recently about psychedelics is so important because those things can rapidly accelerate processing and healing psychological trauma. My view, is if this was done 20 - 30 years ago there wouldn’t be s…

Cocaine and Heroin (and LSD...) were widely available 20-30-40-50 years ago. Maybe this is a "It's the economy, stupid" thing?

Re: The main thing about P2P meth is that there's so much of it (2021)

#104

Post by aoeusnth1 »

chadgpt3 wrote: post #102
bityard wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Small towns in North America are are being decimated by meth. The drug dealers move in because there are no drug task forces, just underfunded and ill-equipped sheriffs and local police. My wife and I live in the suburbs now but grew up in a very rural community. Last year we went to a wedding there. It was shocking how many people under the age of 50 were missing half their teeth.

Is it the government's job to enforce people's teeth? I presume you also observed something worse than that but chose not to write about it?

I believe they were using their teeth (or lack thereof) to reference their visible meth addiction. See GP, "2) meth is neurodegenerative. heavy users end up with a permanent disability."

Re: The main thing about P2P meth is that there's so much of it (2021)

#105

Post by adrianN »

chadgpt3 wrote: post #102
bityard wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Small towns in North America are are being decimated by meth. The drug dealers move in because there are no drug task forces, just underfunded and ill-equipped sheriffs and local police. My wife and I live in the suburbs now but grew up in a very rural community. Last year we went to a wedding there. It was shocking how many people under the age of 50 were missing half their teeth.

Is it the government's job to enforce people's teeth? I presume you also observed something worse than that but chose not to write about it?

I consider it the governments job to keep the population in a state where they can have a net benefit to society. Obviously this needs to be balanced with personal freedoms.

Re: The main thing about P2P meth is that there's so much of it (2021)

#106

Post by Aurornis »

KarlKode wrote: post #40
hash872 wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The government should just regulate it, control purity and production and let people access small amounts for recreation/performance Famously, the US spent about 15-20 years attempting this with opioids. They were widely available to people via a pseudo-medical process, or via secondhand dealing. Opioids were/are manufactured by regulated, publicly traded companies with inspectors who controlled purity and productio…

I think a astronomically better example would be programs in the Netherlands, Denmark or Switzerland, where people heavily addicted to heroine can get into programs that will provide them with pharmaceutical heroine. Still prescribed by doctors (although specialized ones), but not just for pulling a wisdom tooth with huge margins for the Sacklers...

The last time I looked up the Swiss program it was only servicing a small number of people. Around 1500 in a country if 9 million. It also wasn’t prescribed like a typical medication but part of a program where they received other treatment as well. There was some exception where some people could get 2 days of it at a time to take home, but it wasn’t a free for all prescription where they could just talk to a doctor and get their monthly desired supply from a pharmacy.

Many countries, including the US, use methadone for maintenance. As I understand it it’s not as enjoyable as some people’s opioids of choice but it’s still an extremely powerful opioid depending on the dose (easily fatal).

So it’s not only the countries you mentioned that provide pharmaceutical opioids as maintenance treatment. The US does too, though the form is different.

Re: The main thing about P2P meth is that there's so much of it (2021)

#107

Post by chadgpt3 »

aoeusnth1 wrote: post #104
chadgpt3 wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it the government's job to enforce people's teeth? I presume you also observed something worse than that but chose not to write about it?

I believe they were using their teeth (or lack thereof) to reference their visible meth addiction. See GP, "2) meth is neurodegenerative. heavy users end up with a permanent disability."

Yeah but if teeth are the worst of it, that's not really the government's problem. The government doesn't prohibit alcohol to prevent liver damage and that's worse than tooth damage. If teeth aren't the worst of it, what was the worst of it?

Re: The main thing about P2P meth is that there's so much of it (2021)

#108

Post by z33k »

trhway wrote: post #24
milesvp wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was thinking the same thing, though I couldn't remember the timeline. Makes me wonder if there was something already in the zeitgeist, or if it was fueled by the obsession with purity in the series. I could totally see Breaking Bad causing chemists to want to up their game, or causing chemists to get clowned for having low purity.

yes, while the show probably popularized the idea of purity for meth, in general strict prohibition leads to increase in purity and potency. We've recently seen that with heroin/fentanyl. There is probably still no "fentanyl of meth", and thus so far only purity increase. Once a more potent, fentanyl-like, meth appears, it will probably similarly get into and displace a lot of classic meth trade.

The pyrovalerones are basically the fentanyl of meth. More potent, shorter lasting, more dangerous.

Re: The main thing about P2P meth is that there's so much of it (2021)

#109

Post by idxoutofbounds »

> Ephedrine meth was like a party drug. […] You could normally kind of more or less hang onto your life. You had a house, you had a job. […] P2P meth was nothing like that. It was a very sinister drug. It brought you inside. You didn’t want to be around other people. You wanted to just kind of be alone with whatever bizarre thoughts your mind was now cooking up, and conspiracies. That sounds a lot like the progression of many stimulant addictions.

Re: The main thing about P2P meth is that there's so much of it (2021)

#110

Post by fc417fc802 »

asgraham wrote: post #84
bhotka wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

how does my spiritual wellness affect the mechanical structure of my lower back?

Ignoring the spiritual part, emotional state does have a well-known feedback loop with physical state. There’s a (largely incorrect) idea in pop psychology that just as happiness leads to smiling, smiling leads to happiness. It’s not nearly that simple, but there are some more straightforward examples: lots of tense emotional states (anger, anxiety) lead to tense muscles (jaw being the classic example). Relaxing your…

> (largely incorrect) ... just as happiness leads to smiling, smiling leads to happiness.

I don't have a citation to hand and it's really old but there was academic research supporting that at some point. IIRC they used some clever request to get people to move their facial muscles in various ways without tipping them off about what was really going on and then asked them lots of questions that touch on emotional state.

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