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The main thing about P2P meth is that there's so much of it (2021)

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Re: The main thing about P2P meth is that there's so much of it (2021)

#81

Post by tomjen3 »

yojo wrote: post #62
keepamovin wrote: post #10

The ephedrine (or pseudoephedrine) synthesis is a one step using phosphorus/iodine reduction directly to methamphetamine. It’s simple and clean in that only an acid base extraction is required, and only one set of NP solvents. All these others syntheses with multiple steps up the chances of weird toxic solvents or contaminants creeping in. I think it’s a contaminant issue that’s exacerbated by the drug use. The gover…

Oregon decriminalized drugs in 2020 and the experiment is widely viewed as a failure by both sides of the political spectrum. The Democratic legislature rolled it back four years later. It doesn’t necessarily follow that it’s impossible to have a legalized or decriminalized regime that works, but it is non-trivial to get right.

Its meaningless to decriminalize using it, since it does not give big benefit of replacing narco terrorists producers with pure, controlled stuff from legal pharma companies.

The world is obviously better of without drugs, but given that is not going to happen, the question to decide is: is the world better of with drugs from legal pharmacutical companies, or (somewhat) restricted access to drugs through an illegal system?

Decrimininalizing drug use is the worst of both worlds: you get more drug access, but it still happens through the illegal system and benefits narco terrorists.

If you don't want to put drug users in jail (you cannot reasonably fine homeless people), you can offer drug courts and diversionary programs.

You need the federal government to do what it did with Marijuana (which is still federally illegal), to be able to try the other choice.

Re: The main thing about P2P meth is that there's so much of it (2021)

#82

Post by gwerbin »

keepamovin wrote: post #10

The ephedrine (or pseudoephedrine) synthesis is a one step using phosphorus/iodine reduction directly to methamphetamine. It’s simple and clean in that only an acid base extraction is required, and only one set of NP solvents. All these others syntheses with multiple steps up the chances of weird toxic solvents or contaminants creeping in. I think it’s a contaminant issue that’s exacerbated by the drug use. The gover…

> All these others syntheses with multiple steps up the chances of weird toxic solvents or contaminants creeping in. I think it’s a contaminant issue that’s exacerbated by the drug use.

The article addresses this:

> Second, the evidence we have is against the idea of contaminants in P2P meth. Almost all meth was produced using P2P since 2012, before most reports of schizophrenia. And P2P meth synthesis has changed several times in the interim, resulting in higher purity than ever before.

Not saying they're right, but the author at least believes this hypothesis is contradicted by the data.

Re: The main thing about P2P meth is that there's so much of it (2021)

#83

Post by munificent »

bhotka wrote: post #75
ghthor wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Chronic Back pain is correlated with emotional trauma. The physical body is a mere projection of the energetic and spiritual being. This is wahy meditative spiritual practices such as yoga and taiji are good for chronic pain, as the physical pain is a mere projection of a deeper trauma that needs released.

how does my spiritual wellness affect the mechanical structure of my lower back?

Setting the woo aside, there is a lot of data on disorders like central sensitization syndrome that show our psychological state has a very strong modulating effect on our perception of pain.

Re: The main thing about P2P meth is that there's so much of it (2021)

#84

Post by asgraham »

bhotka wrote: post #75
ghthor wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Chronic Back pain is correlated with emotional trauma. The physical body is a mere projection of the energetic and spiritual being. This is wahy meditative spiritual practices such as yoga and taiji are good for chronic pain, as the physical pain is a mere projection of a deeper trauma that needs released.

how does my spiritual wellness affect the mechanical structure of my lower back?

Ignoring the spiritual part, emotional state does have a well-known feedback loop with physical state. There’s a (largely incorrect) idea in pop psychology that just as happiness leads to smiling, smiling leads to happiness. It’s not nearly that simple, but there are some more straightforward examples: lots of tense emotional states (anger, anxiety) lead to tense muscles (jaw being the classic example). Relaxing your jaw can lead to a (temporary) relaxation of your emotional tenseness. I’ve never heard of a similar result for the lower back, but it’s not hard to imagine. If nothing else, they must be correlated through sedentary lifestyle.

Re: The main thing about P2P meth is that there's so much of it (2021)

#85

Post by thrownthatway »

hash872 wrote: post #34
keepamovin wrote: post #10

The ephedrine (or pseudoephedrine) synthesis is a one step using phosphorus/iodine reduction directly to methamphetamine. It’s simple and clean in that only an acid base extraction is required, and only one set of NP solvents. All these others syntheses with multiple steps up the chances of weird toxic solvents or contaminants creeping in. I think it’s a contaminant issue that’s exacerbated by the drug use. The gover…

>The government should just regulate it, control purity and production and let people access small amounts for recreation/performance Famously, the US spent about 15-20 years attempting this with opioids. They were widely available to people via a pseudo-medical process, or via secondhand dealing. Opioids were/are manufactured by regulated, publicly traded companies with inspectors who controlled purity and productio…

There are 193 countries, plus the Holy See.

Re: The main thing about P2P meth is that there's so much of it (2021)

#86

Post by bbor »

zephen wrote: post #56
cybercatgurrl wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

rectify it how? the only thing society is really good at with regards to drugs is prohibition. you can’t impose regulations on an unregulated market

> the only thing society is really good at with regards to drugs is prohibition. Really? Seems to me that, in general, we suck at it.

It does feel like that sometimes, but alcohol use plummeted during US prohibition.

Re: The main thing about P2P meth is that there's so much of it (2021)

#87

Post by gostsamo »

bananamogul wrote: post #55
hash872 wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The government should just regulate it, control purity and production and let people access small amounts for recreation/performance Famously, the US spent about 15-20 years attempting this with opioids. They were widely available to people via a pseudo-medical process, or via secondhand dealing. Opioids were/are manufactured by regulated, publicly traded companies with inspectors who controlled purity and productio…

Are you referring to the massive opiate abuse crisis that followed World War One?

I believe the gp meant the last few decades and the crisis that culminated with the Purdue trial.

Re: The main thing about P2P meth is that there's so much of it (2021)

#88

Post by ulrikrasmussen »

zephen wrote: post #80
ulrikrasmussen wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The author points out a synthesis route that includes lead in a reducing agent, and I think that other routes also depend on reducing agents that contain mercury (aluminum amalgam). Heavy metal exposure is cumulative, so even small amounts over a long time could be significant. They also disrupt the same dopaminergic system that heavy doses of stimulants disrupt, so the effects could be hard to find if we only look a…

Yes, if there are multiplicative effects from the different disruptors, that could certainly have a large effect.

Indeed, and for a layman like me it even sounds quite plausible that this could be what is making people go "mad as a hatter": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erethism

Add to that that the routes of administration preferred by heaver users (smoking and injection) are also those that maximize the harms of mercury exposure.

Re: The main thing about P2P meth is that there's so much of it (2021)

#89

Post by 33MHz-i486 »

the problems with the meth epidemic are 3 fold. two problems are intrinsic to meth and one is a matter of public policy.

1) meth is highly addictive and there is no pharmacological intervention for that addiction. there is no clinically effective therapeutic treatment for it either

2) meth is neurodegenerative. heavy users end up with a permanent disability

3) at some point around 2010 a bunch of cities decided it was totally cool if dealing and public use were normalized/decriminalized in areas their most vulnerable populations hang out.

(3) is an incredibly stupid and expensive policy given (1) and (2)

Re: The main thing about P2P meth is that there's so much of it (2021)

#90

Post by ulrikrasmussen »

bhotka wrote: post #75
ghthor wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Chronic Back pain is correlated with emotional trauma. The physical body is a mere projection of the energetic and spiritual being. This is wahy meditative spiritual practices such as yoga and taiji are good for chronic pain, as the physical pain is a mere projection of a deeper trauma that needs released.

how does my spiritual wellness affect the mechanical structure of my lower back?

Functional disorders are a thing, and placebo surgery for osteoarthritis of the knee works just as well as real surgery: https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa013259

I have heard psychedelics be described as the most effective placebo of all placebos.

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