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Princeton mandates proctoring for in-person exams, upending 133 year precedent

dailyprincetonian.com

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Re: Princeton mandates proctoring for in-person exams, upending 133 year precedent

#331

Post by aidenn0 »

alephnerd wrote: post #60
twoWhlsGud wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Princeton was that way in my lifetime (and I'm not that old : ) - corruption is not inevitable nor should honor be considered some sort of utopian dream.

> I'm not that old I'm not sure. Most HNers appear to be in their late 30s to early 40s, which is a massive generation gap. Classes and incentive structures have changed for people who graduated in the early 2010s compared to the late 1990s or early 2000s and neither would understand students who graduate in the mid-late 2020s.

ggp said 100s of years. I am certain that gp is not 100s of years old.

Re: Princeton mandates proctoring for in-person exams, upending 133 year precedent

#332

Post by gnerd00 »

alephnerd wrote: post #9
hcurtiss wrote: post #2

Princeton is a strange place. What on earth could be the objection to proctoring? I'd much rather have a proctor than have to narc on a classmate. And even then, the proctor just reports the matter to a student-run body? Wild.

As someone who has attended this kind of program, it's because some students will cheat and view proctoring as an annoyance. Imo it's both on the students (plenty of students are optimizing just to get a class out of the way to do more interesting stuff) and the programs (some classes just aren't up-to-date or are rightfully viewed as busywork). Personally, I found courses that were output heavy and regurgitation lig…

I dont know what it means, but you missed an important category that was mentioned elsewhere ... brutal, even sadistic levels of work to filter students. I was in these kind of classes in my undergrad.

Re: Princeton mandates proctoring for in-person exams, upending 133 year precedent

#333

Post by afavour »

jdlshore wrote: post #133
afavour wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You don’t act honourably because that will “get you ahead”. You act honourably because it is right. As much as I would like to believe that’s true I don’t think it is. You act honourably because society incentivises you to. To act dishonourably is to be disadvantaged, to be shamed, to be cast out. That is the part that’s missing today.

I see where you’re coming from, but something about this framing bothers me. I think acting honorably has to come from within. It’s something that people need to do regardless of rewards or incentives. Now, how we create a culture that actually does so… that has to come from society. But, imo, if people only act honorably because they’re rewarded for it, and they don’t when no one is looking… that’s not acting honora…

My pessimistic take is that the majority of the population will simply never do that. Look at organized religion. One of its key promises is “behave in life and you’ll get everything you could ever dream of in the afterlife”. I don’t think it’s coincidental.

Re: Princeton mandates proctoring for in-person exams, upending 133 year precedent

#334

Post by bookofjoe »

burnt-resistor wrote: post #310
recroad wrote: post #309

You mean currently exams aren't proctored?! I went to the University of Toronto and can't recall a single exam which wasn't.

Stanford is also unproctored by charter.

>Nearly 40% of Stanford undergraduates claim they’re disabled. I’m one of them

https://www.thetimes.com/us/news-today/article/40-percent-st...

https://archive.ph/RPegw

Re: Princeton mandates proctoring for in-person exams, upending 133 year precedent

#335

Post by [deleted] »

bookofjoe wrote: post #334
burnt-resistor wrote: post #310

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Stanford is also unproctored by charter.

>Nearly 40% of Stanford undergraduates claim they’re disabled. I’m one of them https://www.thetimes.com/us/news-today/article/40-percent-st... https://archive.ph/RPegw

[deleted]

Re: Princeton mandates proctoring for in-person exams, upending 133 year precedent

#336

Post by elgertam »

CSMastermind wrote: post #275

People blame AI but in reality it's more about America transitioning from a high-trust society to a low-trust one.

> it's more about America transitioning from a high-trust society to a low-trust one.

We're talking about Princeton, here. Trust among elites remains persistently high. In fact, it's likely higher than ever due to assortative mating & geographic sorting. Elites, even students in the Ivies, still have trust of government and elite institutions, which the elite stratum itself runs. Trust between elites and lower strata has declined, where elites and middle- and lower-classes have significant mistrust between each other, and the latter have lower trust within their own strata than in the past.

What's more likely IMO is that 1) the cost of cheating (i.e. the cost of assembling a ripped off assignment multiplied by the risk of being caught) has declined precipitously due to LLMs and 2) elite institutions remain the most ruthlessly competitive in the country and even the world.

Re: Princeton mandates proctoring for in-person exams, upending 133 year precedent

#338

Post by uejfiweun »

throwaway198846 wrote: post #276
CSMastermind wrote: post #275

People blame AI but in reality it's more about America transitioning from a high-trust society to a low-trust one.

When was the USA a high trust society?

I don't think we were ever a "high trust" society in the way that like Denmark is or something. But I'd find it hard to argue with the assertion that rather, the US has become increasingly more of a low trust society recently, more than we already were.

Re: Princeton mandates proctoring for in-person exams, upending 133 year precedent

#339

Post by bdlowery »

recroad wrote: post #309

You mean currently exams aren't proctored?! I went to the University of Toronto and can't recall a single exam which wasn't.

well yes, you were in Toronto, where there is a very very veeerry high cheating ratio compared to other areas.

Re: Princeton mandates proctoring for in-person exams, upending 133 year precedent

#340

Post by rayiner »

osculum wrote: post #112
throwup238 wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s just the propaganda they sell during college visits. When I was at Caltech the honor code didn’t inspire any pride, because the only way anyone got through that course load was by “cheating”*. No one had any time for pride (GO BEAVERS!) An honor code is an admission that your curriculum is so sadistic, not even cheating will help. Princeton just isn’t prestigious enough to keep up that charade. * At Caltech th…

Im surprised to hear that. I went to Caltech for my postgrad and never collaborated on an test, and it would have never ocurre me to do so (and no, the professor didn’t have to explicitly say they collaboration was not allowed. It was just the standard honor code). We all suspected of people that didn’t adhere to the honor code and it was frowned upon, and they could have faced repercussions if anyone had reported th…

He or she is telling on himself. Cheaters always project.

I looked at materials hidden in my desk for one question during a quiz in fifth grade and it still gnaws at me. Cheaters suck.

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