People blame AI but in reality it's more about America transitioning from a high-trust society to a low-trust one.
When was the USA a high trust society?
Back during the Red Scare obviously \s
Princeton mandates proctoring for in-person exams, upending 133 year precedent
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Re: Princeton mandates proctoring for in-person exams, upending 133 year precedent
#282Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Which is bad, someone who cheats on a test or someone who rats out their friend for cheating on a test? Obviously the first. How is this even a question?
This is not obvious at all. Loyalty is a fundamental moral principle. Loyalty to a friend carries a lot of moral weight. Humans are a social animal, and loyalty to a friend can easily outweigh loyalty to some abstract institution. Like, my friend will still have my back five years from now. The university I went to won't do shit for me. Like, if you're talking about loyalty to a friend who wants you to cover up an un…
I don't consider it loyalty to know a friend has cheated, and let them get away with it.
Teachers/Professors are already used to accommodating dumb planning/mistakes from students. An honest "I spent too much time partying and fell behind, can I get an extension" email will often get you very far.
Also baffled to hear cheating on a boyfriend included there, cheating of that sort would be friendship ending.
Re: Princeton mandates proctoring for in-person exams, upending 133 year precedent
#283Earlier quoted context omitted.
Even more astounding is the reporting number. If 44.6% of students saw an honor code violation and didn't report it, and 0.4% of students saw an honor code violation and did report it, that means that 99.2% of Princeton students that pledge to report honor code violations break that pledge. And that's only counting the voluntary reporters, meaning that the actual rate is presumably even worse! But also, how would rep…
Could just be that about half of them never saw violations
It is true that more than half of respondees reported that they never saw a violation.
However, the 44.6% was the category of "respondents reported knowledge of Honor Code violations that they chose not to report," and the 0.4% was the category of "had reported a peer for an Honor Code violation."
Everybody who saw a violation was in one of those two categories (did report or didn't report), so we can compare them to see what percent of people who saw honor code violations did, and the answer is that >99% of them failed to uphold their pledge.
Re: Princeton mandates proctoring for in-person exams, upending 133 year precedent
#284People blame AI but in reality it's more about America transitioning from a high-trust society to a low-trust one.
When was the USA a high trust society?
In the General Social Survey, the share of adults saying “most people can be trusted” fell from 46% in 1972 to 34% in 2018, and Pew found the same 34% in a 2023 to 2024 poll. - https://www.pewresearch.org/2025/05/08/americans-trust-in-on...
Re: Princeton mandates proctoring for in-person exams, upending 133 year precedent
#285Earlier quoted context omitted.
What is "Swiss metro"? Curious now.
It's incredibly common all over Europe, not just Switzerland. Not only the metros but the trams and even buses often rely on this system where there's no turnstile or barrier, you just walk in. Not sure it's about being a high trust society or not, there's frequent inspections where they block the doors, and you get a hefty fine if you're caught without a valid ticket. I certainly wouldn't call Prague or Rome or Dubl…
Buy a ticket and get on was the standard everywhere for trams and trolleys because you didn’t have enough enforcers and you didn’t have controlled access.
Spot checking kept people honest but it only really works when most people are honest.
Re: Princeton mandates proctoring for in-person exams, upending 133 year precedent
#286Earlier quoted context omitted.
That’s just the propaganda they sell during college visits. When I was at Caltech the honor code didn’t inspire any pride, because the only way anyone got through that course load was by “cheating”*. No one had any time for pride (GO BEAVERS!) An honor code is an admission that your curriculum is so sadistic, not even cheating will help. Princeton just isn’t prestigious enough to keep up that charade. * At Caltech th…
Im surprised to hear that. I went to Caltech for my postgrad and never collaborated on an test, and it would have never ocurre me to do so (and no, the professor didn’t have to explicitly say they collaboration was not allowed. It was just the standard honor code). We all suspected of people that didn’t adhere to the honor code and it was frowned upon, and they could have faced repercussions if anyone had reported th…
> they could have faced repercussions if anyone had reported them.
Did people report them?
Re: Princeton mandates proctoring for in-person exams, upending 133 year precedent
#287Earlier quoted context omitted.
> What on earth could be the objection to proctoring? There is a unique pride in being part of a community built around honor. You see this on the Swiss metro and in small-town vegetable stalls. Unproctored exams force every student to weigh the value of their honor against a better grade. That's a personal moral reckoning that might be worth the entire degree.
Seriously, if you are a lazy or too slow son of a wealthy family, do you care about "honour" or what your daddy will give you if you pass? It smells like a backdoor.
don't know about the phone era, but previously schools were widely separated by reputation and practice. "lazy or too slow son of a wealthy family" went to certain schools that had that element. The really competitive and state-of-the-art schools really did not do that "directly". There were approaches for example sports, and niche majors that were easier for sure. Another observation is that some advanced students were into specific and dedicated cheating in order to win. Others had a "party" orientation and just did not do as much schoolwork. A criticism based on "rich kid" also does not ring true as a general statement about University in the USA to me.
Re: Princeton mandates proctoring for in-person exams, upending 133 year precedent
#288Re: Princeton mandates proctoring for in-person exams, upending 133 year precedent
#289Earlier quoted context omitted.
I definitely still see honor system pay boxes in the USA. Maybe not in big cities, but outside of them. Disc golf courses, fire wood piles, that day’s chicken eggs in a wooden box on the side of the road.
I came to this country as an immigrant and one of the first memories I have was walking to the gas station to get the Sunday paper for my host father. I remember opening up the door and seeing tens of Sunday papers and was taken aback thinking how can this be, wouldn't someone just put in a quarter and take ALL of the Sunday papers home with her/him. In today's society (and especially if we are talking Princeton-like…
There are places today in the USA where the roadside stands don’t even have a lockbox, just a bowl of money.
We specifically don’t tell you where because we’d like to keep it that way.
Re: Princeton mandates proctoring for in-person exams, upending 133 year precedent
#290Earlier quoted context omitted.
Could just be that about half of them never saw violations
It is true that more than half of respondees reported that they never saw a violation. However, the 44.6% was the category of "respondents reported knowledge of Honor Code violations that they chose not to report," and the 0.4% was the category of "had reported a peer for an Honor Code violation." Everybody who saw a violation was in one of those two categories (did report or didn't report), so we can compare them to…
Those two categories don't include everyone. 44.6% saw a violation and didn't report. 0.4% saw a violation and did report. That doesn't include people who didn't see a violation. Did I misread something?