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Kickstarter is forced to ban adult content by payment processors

kotaku.com

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Re: Kickstarter is forced to ban adult content by payment processors

#121
post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's not a sudden new thing. The financial theory seems to explain all the facts. Literally all three of the examples you list were the direct result of lobbying from groups like Exodus Cry and Morality in Media. These campaigns had been in the works for years, and were well-known to people in the industry, who had been sounding the alarm for years . It's maddening that people not only refuse to listen before the a…

OK, I've checked that claim more carefully and confirmed it to my satisfaction. Comments retracted. Left my links up in the GP comment for context for yours.

Thank you - appreciate you being willing to correct that.

Re: Kickstarter is forced to ban adult content by payment processors

#122

Why payment processors do it? Why people in America do not want to earn more money from commissions? Strong church lobby? Legal risks? I think its mostly religious groups who who are against adult content and sex, or there are other groups? Also this is why we should work to increase circulation of cryptocurrency. No stupid religious restrictions and stupid political sanctions. Also why PornHub and OnlyFans are immun…

> why PornHub and OnlyFans are immune

They're not. I highly recommend the podcast "Hot Money: who rules porn". It's about the internet "revolution" of porn, when it went from DVD to the Internet. It's very interesting and sometimes hilarious.

4 fingers are OK. 5 fingers are NOT. The payment card cartel has an unofficial list of what is and isn't OK to show. It becomes a different act when all fingers are involved and they don't want that. I kid you not.

https://www.pushkin.fm/podcasts/hot-money/hot-money-who-rule...

Re: Kickstarter is forced to ban adult content by payment processors

#123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They do! It's called a high risk merchant account. Their payment processor would do it: https://stripe.com/ie/resources/more/high-risk-merchant-acco... > Also I think it is weird that when someone steals a bank card, they use it to buy adult games instead of buying an iPhone or MacBook and shipping it to the third world country. iPhone or MacBook purchases are expensive enough to trigger fraud detection reliably. A $…

> Adult content purchases have another problem where purchasers often deny having made the purchase when their significant other finds it on the credit card statement. Shaggy's "It wasn't me" defense. Ridiculous. People who consume adult content could at least behave like adults.

They could, as soon as people who police the consumptino of adult content behave like adults.

Re: Kickstarter is forced to ban adult content by payment processors

#124
As a person who has been working in payment processing for the past 5 years, I can definitely say: a total norm. I'm impressed they allowed that in the first place.

The adult category is a very touchy one. When one get's an OK to connect to the credit card network he has to go a very arduous procedure of being approved by a CC provider. Because the worst thing that can happen from a viewpoint of a payment provider is a return. At the exact moment when someone asks for a return on a credit card, the provider is the one who is responsible and has to revert the transaction instantly.

(That's why Banks are sooooo lengthy and pushy about you filing those claims. They don't want you to initiate the return.)

Now, if you sell weed, do gambling, sell crypto, do porn or anything else of that sort, you have to pay extra for your card processing, to offset all potential problems for the payment provider.

Problems? What problems? Well, a LOT of transactions for adult content and toys happen on stolen cards. And those cards are not stolen per say. It's just a kid taking parent's CC card, or your SO is using it without your knowledge. Once found, this results in a lot of scandals and quarreling. Followed by a return request. And those returns are very annoying to that. The service "technically" was delivered. But now you are loosing it. And the payments provider does not want to be hit by that.

In fact, this is not a news in the first place. When Kickstarter sign their agreement with the card provider, they specifically stated categories of services they will be responsible for. And I guess porn was not one of them. So what? Now the provider saw a chargeback because of the adult content and did the most standard thing: Went back to the documents, noted the fact that Kickstarter not suppose to be doing adult content, and went back to Kickstarter to tell them to stop.

I handle 2-3 of such cases per month. It's called routine.

But now, enter the world of entertainment. A quick search shows one that Kotaku is a subsidiary of a larger conglamerate G/O Media (Gizmodo - Onion). A private equity company that bought out a bunch of entertainment websites like Gizmodo, Lifehacker and Kotaku. It started in 2019, and went basically bankrupt by 2023. They have been selling their websites to different holdings. In 2025 Kotaku was sold to a Swiss conclamerate that put it into a line of similar useless media resources. And if you check the author - you'll find out that he is a well-established gaming reporter. With little knowledge of the money business.

And then this article makes it to HN.

Re: Kickstarter is forced to ban adult content by payment processors

#125

Question: what prevents an organisation like Kickstarter from using more than one payment processor, including the ones used by actual porn companies?

What I have heard before is that the processors don’t want to be associated with the sites at all, even indirectly, so unless the content is banned from the site entirely they will pull service.

Re: Kickstarter is forced to ban adult content by payment processors

#126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

actually if they were it would be easier to argue it's a violation of free speech, but since they're not they can censor with much less restriction tbh there's a case to be made that the government should run a payment processor as critical infrastructure

The way governments these days use corporations and NGOs to work around constitutional restrictions, I'm sure they're pretty happy leaving the payment processors as-is.

They actually just got slapped for doing this. This was in the area of speech but hopefully it’s the start of a larger trend. https://foundationforfreedomonline.com/us-government-concede...

Re: Kickstarter is forced to ban adult content by payment processors

#127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Article and comments are underrating the impact of reputational risk on payment processors and on Kickstarter itself, for hosting/facilitating sexual content. Some amount of adult comment is CSAM, or otherwise broadly disfavored. Some companies (Pornhub, OnlyFans) are willing to specialize in discriminating between “regular” adult content and the objectionable stuff, and they have payment processors similarly willing…

Thanks, this is a better summary of the situation than all the people claiming it’s chargebacks (no longer such an issue as it used to be). The problem is that activists who are laser focused on eliminating adult content watch intently for the first thing they can use against the company, and even if it violates their ToS something problematic is eventually bound to get through review. Rather than reporting it to the…

> The problem is that activists who are laser focused on eliminating adult content watch intently for the first thing they can use against the company, and even if it violates their ToS something problematic is eventually bound to get through review.

This is why Pornhub is always targeted under the pretense of "fighting CSAM" when in reality Facebook is orders of magnitude worse in terms of the prevalence of CSAM and the distribution.

Exodus Cry, et. al. don't target Facebook, because they don't actually care about fighting CSAM - they are simply weaponizing that rhetoric in order to attack the the thing they really want to end (pornography, and more broadly, anything "immoral" according to a right-wing, evangelical definition of that word).

Re: Kickstarter is forced to ban adult content by payment processors

#128

Why payment processors do it? Why people in America do not want to earn more money from commissions? Strong church lobby? Legal risks? I think its mostly religious groups who who are against adult content and sex, or there are other groups? Also this is why we should work to increase circulation of cryptocurrency. No stupid religious restrictions and stupid political sanctions. Also why PornHub and OnlyFans are immun…

[flagged]

Re: Kickstarter is forced to ban adult content by payment processors

#129

Question: what prevents an organisation like Kickstarter from using more than one payment processor, including the ones used by actual porn companies?

The pressure comes down through processors from Visa/MC. The new processor you sign up for gets the same phone call and give into the same set of demands, like a clockwork. The alternative has to be something that consumers of your product can handle that don't go through the CC infra, one that this caller don't have the numbers for.

It could be through vouchers sold at gas stations, bank transfers, QR payment apps, etc. But CC has by far the best penetration and most alternatives are weak at best.

If you do figure out the alternative payment or distribution strategy immune to pressure through CC, then it changes targets to legal systems and NGOs. You'd want couples of congresspeople or to push back on that front.

Re: Kickstarter is forced to ban adult content by payment processors

#130
post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it was more expensive to process, why wouldn't they pass those costs on?

The increased costs are from the increased rate of chargebacks.

This is no longer as common as it used to be, and besides chargebacks (plus fees) get passed to the merchant.
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