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A.I. note takers are making lawyers nervous

nytimes.com

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Re: A.I. note takers are making lawyers nervous

#41

Post by fluoridation »

aspenmartin wrote: post #33
r_lee wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think it's a training issue, it's simply that there's no inherent "I don't know" in the transformer architecture unless it's really like something completely unknown, otherwise the nearest neighbor will be chosen and that will be whatever sounds similar or is relevant, even if it might cause a problem

Not inherent in transformer architecture, we do try to ingrain a sense of uncertainty but it’s difficult not only technically but also philosophically/culturally. How confident do you want the model to be in its answer to “why did Rome fall”? Lots of tools in our toolbelts to do better uncertainty calibration but it trades off against other capabilities and actually can be rather frustrating to interact with in agent…

>How confident do you want the model to be in its answer to “why did Rome fall”?

The confidence level can be any, as long as it's reported accurately often enough. "This is my conjecture, but", "I'm not completely sure, but", and "most historians agree that" are all perfectly valid ways to start a sentence, which LLMs never use. They state mathematical truth, general consensus, hotly debated stances, and total fabrication, with the exact same assertiveness.

Re: A.I. note takers are making lawyers nervous

#42

Post by bearjaws »

vintagedave wrote: post #2

Paywall: can anyone share what the issue is? Inaccuracy in meeting minutes? Leaking private info, re security of notes? I have never used them (don't trust them to accurately capture what is important in a meeting vs just noting what's mentioned), but the concept seems very useful to me.

The main risk is attorney client privilege and it's already been tested in New York, if you transcribe a call you need to turn over the transcriptions and they can subpoena the company doing the transcription for the records if you refuse.

Re: A.I. note takers are making lawyers nervous

#43

Post by [deleted] »

burningion wrote: post #6

The main point raised in the article is that these bots may void attorney client privileges. But the real danger with these IMO is that they're turning casual conversations into a permanent record, and one that will be completely discoverable in court, should the company get into trouble later.

[deleted]

Re: A.I. note takers are making lawyers nervous

#44

Post by flir »

triceratops wrote: post #40
watwut wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Basically, it will be harder to hide illegal and unethical stuff companies routinely engage in.

That's an argument for recording everyone on earth 24/7. Is that what you mean?

It'll just happen. Can't really fight technological progress.

Re: A.I. note takers are making lawyers nervous

#46

Post by sdellis »

triceratops wrote: post #40
watwut wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Basically, it will be harder to hide illegal and unethical stuff companies routinely engage in.

That's an argument for recording everyone on earth 24/7. Is that what you mean?

With the level of surveillance and erosion of privacy, that is essentially what is happening. We all know that we are being watched and surveilled. There is no longer an "argument". Anything you say in public or private could potentially be used against you in the future.

Re: A.I. note takers are making lawyers nervous

#47

Post by gwbas1c »

Back when I was in college, in a fraternity, we always assumed that the phones were tapped. Specifically, we never spoke about alcohol or marijuana (now legal) on the phone.

Even today, I generally assume that my phone could be tapped; even when talking with my trusted work colleagues, friends, and family. I'm extra careful about dirty jokes or "grey morality" in video conferences and email.

The same applies to speaking with lawyers. You never know when some motivated asshole wants to twist your words out of context, and the possibility of a recording just enables that behavior.

---

I know enough about security and encryption to know that unless I've exchanged keys physically with someone else, there really is no guarantee that someone hasn't compromised a certificate somewhere. (IE, a "secure" connection on the internet is secure enough for a credit card.)

Re: A.I. note takers are making lawyers nervous

#48

Post by derektank »

SecretDreams wrote: post #26
watwut wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Basically, it will be harder to hide illegal and unethical stuff companies routinely engage in.

Going to also be harder to hide completely legal, but not ideal stuff. Like randomly complaining about your boss to a colleague or casually discussing a feature you're stuck working on that you think is a bad idea.

>casually discussing a feature you're stuck working on that you think is a bad idea.

I’ll be honest, this is something that I hope AI note taking tools capture and incorporate into summaries of the company’s status. Especially if they act as an intermediary without revealing the specific person who said it. There’s a lot of information latent within organizations that doesn’t get properly shared due to concerns of retaliation or simply embarrassment that would benefit everyone by being communicated sooner.

Re: A.I. note takers are making lawyers nervous

#49

Post by triceratops »

sdellis wrote: post #46
triceratops wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's an argument for recording everyone on earth 24/7. Is that what you mean?

With the level of surveillance and erosion of privacy, that is essentially what is happening. We all know that we are being watched and surveilled. There is no longer an "argument". Anything you say in public or private could potentially be used against you in the future.

No there's the potential of that happening. That isn't what actually happens. If everyone's phone was continuously recording and storing everything 24/7 we'd need much bigger batteries for one thing.

Re: A.I. note takers are making lawyers nervous

#50

Post by infecto »

burningion wrote: post #6

The main point raised in the article is that these bots may void attorney client privileges. But the real danger with these IMO is that they're turning casual conversations into a permanent record, and one that will be completely discoverable in court, should the company get into trouble later.

The nuance here too is that just because someone has concern about materials being discoverable does not mean the company is doing something illegal. Corporate law as it pertains to legislation (US in this perspective) is a dance between company and current administration. When it comes to antitrust and other related legislation the equilibrium is shades of gray that changes between both administration changes but sometimes from the same administration. Companies look to optimize their outcomes and the government is optimizing not so much for legality but what the current administration sets as the main concern.
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