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Maryland citizens hit with $2B power grid upgrade for out-of-state AI

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Re: Maryland citizens hit with $2B power grid upgrade for out-of-state AI

#41

Post by Teever »

tempaccount5050 wrote: post #30
UqWBcuFx6NV4r wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is so much FUD going around SPECIFICALLY about data centers lately, that i’m dubious of anything i hear. it’s such a weird cultural phenomenon. Chronically online teenagers on Instagram making increasingly incorrect and absurd-sounding claims about water / energy usage. Comparatively barely anyone knew what a data center was 1-2 years ago.

Yep. 10000 gallons per query, spews out toxic water, contaminates the water supply, uses more power than an entire state, and on and on. I'm convinced it's a psyop to prevent the US's progress in tech. It's so over the top crazy and obviously false, but everyone I know is falling for it.

That's a take. But let's stop and ask ourselves -- Cui bono?

Another take is that the same companies that are pushing for datacentres are often the same companies that control social media and traditional media outlets and are using this control to foster datacentres onto thee average person who is either wildly unenthusiastic about or at best ambivalent about.

It's all pretty moot anyways.

Big tech oligarchs have gotten pretty much everything they want over the years, it's not like the average person in bum-fuck nowhere is really going to be able to stop them from destroying their watersheds, poisoning their air and jacking up electrical prices.

I wouldn't get too upset about opposition to datacentres if I were you.

Money is King and the King has spoken.

There will be datacentres where ever the tech oligarchs want there isn't anything anyone can do about it.

Re: Maryland citizens hit with $2B power grid upgrade for out-of-state AI

#42

Post by rockskon »

lostlogin wrote: post #37
UqWBcuFx6NV4r wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is so much FUD going around SPECIFICALLY about data centers lately, that i’m dubious of anything i hear. it’s such a weird cultural phenomenon. Chronically online teenagers on Instagram making increasingly incorrect and absurd-sounding claims about water / energy usage. Comparatively barely anyone knew what a data center was 1-2 years ago.

> increasingly incorrect and absurd-sounding claims about water Wait till they hear about big Ag and how they use, abuse and ‘pay’ for water, while farming deserts.

Somehow I don't see arguments comparing powering AI with producing food to go over well with them.

Many opponents to AI do not view the tech as having a net benefit. Comparing it to food production would serve to make you look more the fool to them despite their claims about water consumption frequently being wacky.

Re: Maryland citizens hit with $2B power grid upgrade for out-of-state AI

#43

Post by 3eb7988a1663 »

timmg wrote: post #25

It's not clear from the article whether this is just datacenters -- or if that is just the convenient boogeyman. The grid operator for the northeast, according to my Governor, has been well-behind in building out infrastructure. Of course new datacenters cause more load. But so do new houses (we're building as many as we can) and electric cars, etc.

It is not entirely wrong. Annual electricity consumption per capita in Maryland has been falling since 2005[0]. Unless a bunch of aluminum smelting plants have come online in the past 18 months, data centers do seem the appropriate root cause leading to a surge in demand.

[0] https://www.eia.gov/states/MD/data/dashboard/electricity cannot drop a direct link, but you can expand the "Total electricity consumption per capita, annual" chart

Re: Maryland citizens hit with $2B power grid upgrade for out-of-state AI

#44

Post by knollimar »

jorvi wrote: post #32
tempaccount5050 wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep. 10000 gallons per query, spews out toxic water, contaminates the water supply, uses more power than an entire state, and on and on. I'm convinced it's a psyop to prevent the US's progress in tech. It's so over the top crazy and obviously false, but everyone I know is falling for it.

They might be wrong on this one, but check the history on cancer alley, or the legalized massive PFAS dumping in rivers the world over, that has now polluted the earth so thoroughly you cannot escape going over the maximum recommended body serum. Same for microplastics. It is absolutely justified to be extremely suspicious of big corporate. They've earned it.

It seems pretty easy to undermine the trust in the other side if you just pretend to be on it and inflate their numbers. See: Florida will be underwater by date X [in the past]

Re: Maryland citizens hit with $2B power grid upgrade for out-of-state AI

#45

Post by denkmoon »

rockskon wrote: post #42
lostlogin wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> increasingly incorrect and absurd-sounding claims about water Wait till they hear about big Ag and how they use, abuse and ‘pay’ for water, while farming deserts.

Somehow I don't see arguments comparing powering AI with producing food to go over well with them. Many opponents to AI do not view the tech as having a net benefit. Comparing it to food production would serve to make you look more the fool to them despite their claims about water consumption frequently being wacky.

Like all food production has equal merit. Growing almonds in the desert is national food security obviously.

Re: Maryland citizens hit with $2B power grid upgrade for out-of-state AI

#46

Post by 3eb7988a1663 »

jamescrowley wrote: post #35
tempaccount5050 wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep. 10000 gallons per query, spews out toxic water, contaminates the water supply, uses more power than an entire state, and on and on. I'm convinced it's a psyop to prevent the US's progress in tech. It's so over the top crazy and obviously false, but everyone I know is falling for it.

‘More power than an entire state’. Yep - take the Stratos data center project in Utah, the first phase of which is expected to consume 3GW and at full capacity is expected to be 9GW. By comparison, the entire state of Utah currently uses about 4GW.

For a less rural example, I am finding different numbers, but all of New York City is estimated at somewhere between 5-10GW. So, some 9 million people vs one data center.

Re: Maryland citizens hit with $2B power grid upgrade for out-of-state AI

#47

Post by fyrn_ »

fooqux wrote: post #36
morkalork wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps utilities should be state owned where any profits are used to offset the tax load on the citizens..

Because there's this belief that a for-profit company will naturally be more efficient. No idea if that's actually true in practice though. Or if efficiency > the profits the company takes. I don't know of any large community ran utilities, just small ones. I'm guessing the scale starts being a problem eventually.

They can be efficient, but I ly if the incentives align towards the desired definition of efficiency. If you give a company a natural monopoly and protection from competition. Then it's most efficient way to make money is just to raise rates

Re: Maryland citizens hit with $2B power grid upgrade for out-of-state AI

#48

Post by analognoise »

rockskon wrote: post #42
lostlogin wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> increasingly incorrect and absurd-sounding claims about water Wait till they hear about big Ag and how they use, abuse and ‘pay’ for water, while farming deserts.

Somehow I don't see arguments comparing powering AI with producing food to go over well with them. Many opponents to AI do not view the tech as having a net benefit. Comparing it to food production would serve to make you look more the fool to them despite their claims about water consumption frequently being wacky.

Everyone should find a comparison to food - which people need to live - as stupid?

Re: Maryland citizens hit with $2B power grid upgrade for out-of-state AI

#49

Post by recursive »

rockskon wrote: post #42
lostlogin wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> increasingly incorrect and absurd-sounding claims about water Wait till they hear about big Ag and how they use, abuse and ‘pay’ for water, while farming deserts.

Somehow I don't see arguments comparing powering AI with producing food to go over well with them. Many opponents to AI do not view the tech as having a net benefit. Comparing it to food production would serve to make you look more the fool to them despite their claims about water consumption frequently being wacky.

Plenty of alfalfa and corn aren't going to food production. And much of those the remaining are not efficient.

https://youtu.be/XusyNT_k-1c

Re: Maryland citizens hit with $2B power grid upgrade for out-of-state AI

#50

Post by AlotOfReading »

fooqux wrote: post #36
morkalork wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps utilities should be state owned where any profits are used to offset the tax load on the citizens..

Because there's this belief that a for-profit company will naturally be more efficient. No idea if that's actually true in practice though. Or if efficiency > the profits the company takes. I don't know of any large community ran utilities, just small ones. I'm guessing the scale starts being a problem eventually.

TVA and the NY power authority are genuinely massive, government run utilities. Both are also known for pretty low power bills.
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