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EU Parliamentary Research Service calls VPNs "a loophole that needs closing"

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Re: EU Parliamentary Research Service calls VPNs "a loophole that needs closing"

#371
post #295

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow it's pretty arrogant to tell someone how to spell their own country's name.

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> foreigners to tell us how we should write things in our own language.

They did that? Where?

I’m also assuming you’re from England, otherwise you’re also a foreigner speaking their language, and likely with considerable difference.

Re: EU Parliamentary Research Service calls VPNs "a loophole that needs closing"

#372
post #295

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow it's pretty arrogant to tell someone how to spell their own country's name.

[flagged]

Without me getting into the specific issue, that's false. Languages evolve by how they are used, regardless whether who uses them is native speaker or not. All languages who have been at some time used "universally" in larger regions evolved reflecting that reality.

Re: EU Parliamentary Research Service calls VPNs "a loophole that needs closing"

#373
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who lives in a jurisdiction which does require such disclosure: it is a significant inconvenience for small businesses, and no benefit to the general public.

Do small businesses in your area have complicated ownership structures that it's significantly inconvenient to disclose the one family that owns, for an example small business , a plumbing repair company with 4 vans and 6 employees?

Lots of small businesses are operated from home. Their business information is scraped, transformed into personal information, sold to spammers and scammers, and in some cases abused in an automated fashion along with thousands of others.

Registering a phone number with the official company registry is sure to get you a scam call within the hour. People will come up to your house later to sell you power contracts you don't need, phone numbers you never wanted, and they will lie through their teeth to forge your signature if you don't agree. If you're unlucky, you'll be fighting a handful of scam companies in court within the first year, charging you thousands every month, because B2B contracts don't have the kind of protections customers have.

The only way to live a somewhat safe life as a small business owner is to have a dedicated phone number you never answer and a dedicated post office address where nobody lives.

These kinds of requirements made a lot of sense thirty years ago, but nowadays, with billions of people able to abuse every bit of information you publish instantly from anywhere while you're asleep, it makes a lot less sense.

In theory this documentation can be used to prevent scams and crimes, but actual enforcement of people's identities has become a problem, and the criminals have plenty of unsuspecting family members, homeless people, or mentally handicapped adults they can pressure into signing papers.

Re: EU Parliamentary Research Service calls VPNs "a loophole that needs closing"

#374
post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But you are asking logical questions. You are thinking and talking too much for a World citizen in 2026. "Reasoning" is a reserved word for chatbots now, so we humans are not allowed to do that anymore. We can only obey like a bot and pretend all the lies they tell are the truth. BTW I live in Turkiye where the government banned ALL the adult websites around 2008. Even as an adult you can't access them. This year the…

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You must be an American? Only Americans act like they get to define what the rest of the world calls places. It’s Gulf of Mexico. Only a country of idiots would call it gulf of America.

Re: EU Parliamentary Research Service calls VPNs "a loophole that needs closing"

#375

I have a question that's been going through my mind - Why is age verification connected with identity verification? I understand why the former is not possible with the latter, but my question is - Whichever entity is responsible for the verification can just pass on the age verification confirmation without passing through any of the other details, right? Am I mistaken here? Because if this was possible, I could sti…

> Why is age verification connected with identity verification?

With the EU's current approach, disconnecting the two is the exact point. There is no third party, the government ID you already have can be used to verify your age directly with an online service.

Re: EU Parliamentary Research Service calls VPNs "a loophole that needs closing"

#376
post #109

In case people no longer remember, when China started to require websites to register for a license before be allowed to operate, it was for "protecting the children" too. This simple policy then goes on to silence most individual publisher(/self-media) and consolidated the industry into the hands of the few, with no opportunity left for smaller entrepreneurs. This is arguably much worse than allowing children to wat…

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> EU is more and more resembling North Korea.

The problem with hyperbolic comparisons is they tend to shut down the conversation. Yes this law is stupid and should be stopped. No, the EU is nothing like NK.

Re: EU Parliamentary Research Service calls VPNs "a loophole that needs closing"

#377
post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ursula von den Leyen has been pushing internet blocks in Germany for the sake of the children since 2009. Which is when "Zensursula" nickname has been coined. You don't need to look far to find the same thinking by the people in power.

>Ursula von den Leyen has been pushing internet blocks in Germany for the sake of the children since 2009. Which is when "Zensursula" nickname has been coined. And then in a completely democratic mannner, Europeans said "that's who we want leading us".

>And then in a completely democratic mannner, Europeans said "that's who we want leading us".

No, it wasn't. She was chosen by a group of country leaders during a closed doors voting.

If it's democratic at all, it's very tangential.

Re: EU Parliamentary Research Service calls VPNs "a loophole that needs closing"

#378

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From a tech perspective it has been a solved problem since about a decade ago, via DID (decentralised identities) and their Verifiable Proofs. The EU digital wallet framework is built around those, and your suggested scenario is a first class citizen. It is now moving from the academic/research world, to the political field, and feedback/pressure from both commercial groups and political agendas is muddling the field…

It's a "solved problem" that didn't ever need solving in the first place.

Buying alcohol online without having to show a website or a delivery driver my social security number is a challenge that needs solving. Same with picking up expensive parcels from package drop-off points in my country.

You can debate whether setting up such a system for things like social media is a necessity or desired in the first place, but being able to show someone a QR code that verifies my name and age without exposing all kinds of other details about me is extremely useful.

Re: EU Parliamentary Research Service calls VPNs "a loophole that needs closing"

#379

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is the exact point. A "best intentions" approach to e.g. solve age verification through a "privacy respecting" mechanism leads to the government mandating that only physical devices with the built in security verification mechanisms, as allowed via government approved signatures, would be able to run these age verification apps (because otherwise you could cheat the mechanisms). This is a direct attack on genera…

I think fundamentally we disagree on 1 principle, that "better" is the enemy of "good". This leads to choosing which tradeoffs to accept. And we are on the same side, to be clear. I want privacy. I also see what you mention, I just frame it differently. Android being locked down is the worst case scenario: private companies makes rules, an update is pushed, no platform for discourse. It's also the standard business p…

> And we are on the same side, to be clear. I want privacy.

I care about far more than privacy. These matters are about societal stability, the panopticon, societal robustness in cases of downturns or wars, the ability to counter the mass control capabilities of artificial intelligence - and much more.

> Android being locked down is the worst case scenario: private companies makes rules, an update is pushed, no platform for discourse.

Personally I'm blaming the lock-down on Android just as much on governments as I do Google, because I believe that they have failed greatly at finding ways to interact with modern technology. Instead of heaping ever more complicated requirements on the platform providers and issuing arbitrary fines, they could likely achieve much more by doing less - e.g. by saying "anyone must be allowed to run the software they want on the device that they own" and "when a person pays for a device they own the device" (I believe there are many other answers to this question that would scale far better than current approaches). Fundamentally, a big part of the problem is the many responsibilities and goals of the government where some of them run counter to allowing such freedoms.

> I like this! It's not "perfect", but i prefer this 1000 times over "let Google verify my age".

Personally I think this should be solved to a satisfactory degree by simply requiring anyone that wants to provide access to content that by law is age restricted to simply advertise this with headers similar to CORS that browsers must respect, such that the configuration of the browser blocks access to those not of age. It is then the responsibility of the parents to configure the devices of their children such that they cannot access age restricted content. It makes perfect sense to have a "child mode" for browsers and operating systems, where the person configuring the setup makes this determination without involving centrally approved systems. To the degree that such a solution would have workarounds I'm absolutely not convinced that the detriments of this is worth the additional costs on restricting the freedom of citizens.

> Now to tech details. Locking down network is impossible as long as decentralization is possible.

This is a plain incorrect view at scale. If the EU decides to either ban E2EE/require client-side scanning/require backdoors, then all major chat applications will have to adhere to this, and it will no longer be practical or possible to have an application like Signal installed on your phone. This means that when being investigated by the police, or e.g. when traveling and being searched, you will be breaking the law by having such an application and will by default be a criminal. The magical part of digital fascism is exactly that it is very effectively enforceable at scale. If you require all computers to only run software that is approved by the government, and you outlaw software that allow unsurveilled communication, then digital fascism allows you to enforce this to a previously unseen degree, exactly because you can prevent any computer from being allowed to run it.

These are quantum differences - not differences of better vs worse. They are also differences of societal and technological lock-in - as once you give up the ability to communicate freely you may never get it back. Right now; Tor, VPNs, Signal, are all legal to use within the EU. However, if you make them illegal and you enforce computers, operating systems, and networks to disallow them, then it becomes far more difficult for anyone to work outside the allowed bounds, both due to technical difficulty as well as criminal liability. This is digital fascism.

Re: EU Parliamentary Research Service calls VPNs "a loophole that needs closing"

#380
post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

and yet my friend in Moscow is able to use VPN to get around all this

"If you are not in prison yet, it is not your merit, but our failure." -- attributed to Felix Dzerzhinsky. Upd: are they able to use VPN when the Internet is in so-called "white-list mode" where only certain websites are available?

Won't they just be able to identify the traffic at his local internet provider as being suitable for a VPN usage match and send 'law enforcement' over?
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