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EU Parliamentary Research Service calls VPNs "a loophole that needs closing"

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Re: EU Parliamentary Research Service calls VPNs "a loophole that needs closing"

#331

Post by joe_mamba »

pronik wrote: post #199
zero-hp wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not only in China. Russian internet cenzorship also started as a "children protection" measure.

Ursula von den Leyen has been pushing internet blocks in Germany for the sake of the children since 2009. Which is when "Zensursula" nickname has been coined. You don't need to look far to find the same thinking by the people in power.

>Ursula von den Leyen has been pushing internet blocks in Germany for the sake of the children since 2009. Which is when "Zensursula" nickname has been coined.

And then in a completely democratic mannner, Europeans said "that's who we want leading us".

Re: EU Parliamentary Research Service calls VPNs "a loophole that needs closing"

#332

Post by qingcharles »

nirui wrote: post #109

In case people no longer remember, when China started to require websites to register for a license before be allowed to operate, it was for "protecting the children" too. This simple policy then goes on to silence most individual publisher(/self-media) and consolidated the industry into the hands of the few, with no opportunity left for smaller entrepreneurs. This is arguably much worse than allowing children to wat…

The simplest solution is perhaps to simply imprison any children found using a VPN until they reach 18, then the state can exert total control over their access to information and they can be safely released into unmoderated society on their 18th birthday.

Re: EU Parliamentary Research Service calls VPNs "a loophole that needs closing"

#333

Post by mcv »

jesterson wrote: post #319
leonidasrup wrote: post #317

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In this case EU is moving towards less freedom, but to compare it with one of the least free countries in the world is an exaggeration.

[flagged]

Not remotely at full speed. This is not a law, and is not in any way being enforced. Bad ideas get proposed too often, but usually they get rejected. I expect the same will happen here, although we should absolutely remain vigilant.

I do share your concern for policy moving in the direction of NK, but the EU isn't moving there nearly as fast as for example the US.

Re: EU Parliamentary Research Service calls VPNs "a loophole that needs closing"

#334

Post by joe_mamba »

cybercatgurrl wrote: post #208
rvnx wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just don’t like criminals, no matter where they come from, it’s quite ok but yes selecting immigration is a socially slippery topic

my personal opinion is it’s an all or nothing thing for immigration. you either reduce entirely for all groups or it’s racism and unfair treatment. everyone deserves an equal chance

>you either reduce entirely for all groups or it’s racism and unfair treatment.

Racism would be restricting immigration over skin color. What people want, and a lot of countries have, is immigration based on merit system: education, skill, income, criminal record. There's nothing racist about that.

Re: EU Parliamentary Research Service calls VPNs "a loophole that needs closing"

#335

Post by palata »

buzer wrote: post #301
palata wrote: post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Well why did you say to them it doesnt have downsides? It has downsides and a very essential one like privacy. It is possible to do age verification in a privacy-preserving manner. So... you're wrong here.

No one is doing it that way though. Also to be truly privacy-preserving you cannot rely on anything that requires any specific OS (especially Android or iOS) as every single OS requires some compromises to privacy. The only privacy-preserving (effective) age verification is asking user if they are over 18 and requiring that they answer truthfully under penalty of perjury. Then prosecute the kids who claim they are ov…

> No one is doing it that way though

Well it exists in Privacy Pass, which is deployed in production. And there are countries that are currently actively looking into privacy-preserving age verification. I don't think that "I keep saying that age verification fundamentally leaks your ID, which is wrong, but it's still valid because nobody will notice" is a good argument.

> The only privacy-preserving (effective) age verification is asking user if they are over 18 and requiring that they answer truthfully under penalty of perjury.

I disagree, I think that there could be a sane debate around ZK age verification, if we could elevate it to that.

Re: EU Parliamentary Research Service calls VPNs "a loophole that needs closing"

#336

Post by joe_mamba »

ghssds wrote: post #155
rvnx wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's because it's not about the opinion of voters, but about existing political powers that want to retain their power. No matter what you (as population) say it will get implemented. If you don't, then they will put sanctions on Poland, withdraw financial partnerships, etc. Like with migrants, they are going to be sent there, even if Polish people vote against. No matter if you are in favor or against, raising the t…

[flagged]

>Your racist drivel is offtopic here.

@dang, how about the HN rules here?

Re: EU Parliamentary Research Service calls VPNs "a loophole that needs closing"

#337

Post by palata »

cess11 wrote: post #251
palata wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Currently you can often identify people, sure, but there's hassle involved You vastly underestimate the current state of surveillance capitalism. > You could also look at who is heavily lobbying for this, you'll find it is fascist tech oligarchs from the US. Go in the street, and ask a bunch of random people: "If there was a way to prevent kids from accessing stuff that is bad for them, and it had no downsides. Wou…

OK, so make an argument.

My argument is: it is possible to do privacy-preserving age verification, and that technology is already deployed (look at Privacy Pass). We should acknowledge that and stop claiming that the age verification issue is the same as the E2EE one, because it is NOT.

And then we could maybe have a constructive debate about whether or not we as a society want that technology. That would be more interesting than "if I keep yelling that it's fundamentally stupid, maybe people on the other side will start believing it".

Re: EU Parliamentary Research Service calls VPNs "a loophole that needs closing"

#338

Post by khriss »

darqis wrote: post #232
u8080 wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just a recap how it happened in Russia: 1. First, year ~2015 legal framework was created under disguise of banning pirated media(specifically torrents.ru)(legislative push). State-wide DNS ban introduced. Very easy to circumvent via quering 8.8.8.8 2. Then, having legal basis, govt included extra stuff in banned list(casinos, terrorist orgs, etc)(executive push). IP bans introduced, applied very carefully. 3. Legal e…

and yet my friend in Moscow is able to use VPN to get around all this

I'm sure you're able to drive faster than the speed limit as well. The issue isn't whether technical circumvention is in the realm of possibility. The base issue here is that even so called 'democratic' governments seem to be copying the authoritarian playbook when it comes to cracking down on privacy online.

Re: EU Parliamentary Research Service calls VPNs "a loophole that needs closing"

#339

Post by joe_mamba »

neonstatic wrote: post #323
swiftcoder wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nobody thought to protect western millennials from accidentally wandering across porn on the internet, and we mostly grew up ok

I don't understand why porn is such a problem and an excuse. There is so much genuinely horrifying stuff on the internet - including gore, pictures and videos of all kinds of abuse, but the problem is always with people having sex on camera for money...

>I don't understand why porn is such a problem and an excuse.

Because porn is the most taboo things in public, even if a lot of people use it at home. Nobody will come and defend liberal porn access because then everyone will call you a gooner or a pedo. It'll probably be the end of your political debate.

Which means porn access can be weaponized without any political opposition. It's the perfect scapegoat to remove online anonymity disguised as "age verification".

Re: EU Parliamentary Research Service calls VPNs "a loophole that needs closing"

#340

Post by baranul »

nirui wrote: post #109

In case people no longer remember, when China started to require websites to register for a license before be allowed to operate, it was for "protecting the children" too. This simple policy then goes on to silence most individual publisher(/self-media) and consolidated the industry into the hands of the few, with no opportunity left for smaller entrepreneurs. This is arguably much worse than allowing children to wat…

It is definitely not really "for the children", when legislation is aimed at all adults, and not specifically for parents. It is parents who should be responsible for the actions of their children and given the software tools to manage their online access. This arguably can be done with government sponsored and specific help for parents; software, websites, and shops with IT personnel.

These measures taken by the EU and other government entities has always been about surveillance, censorship, control, and eliminating freedom of speech and association. People need to keep calling out this continual deception and attempt to erode freedoms.

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