271–280 of 754 posts
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It’s disrespectful to immediately jump to adversarial conclusions from a simple desire to refactor and poor netiquette.
Four days ago there was no intention to rewrite, now it's a simple desire to refactor. It's not adversarial conclusion, it's pointing out the clear hypocrisy.
> 99.8% of bun’s pre-existing test suite passes on Linux x64 glibc in the rust rewrite OK, they've got a working prototype, congrats! Now it needs to be put into shape so that all the unsafe blocks are eliminated (maybe with a few tiny exceptions), and the code is turned into maintainable, readable, reasonably idiomatic Rust. I wonder how long is it going to take.
> Now it needs to be put into shape so that all the unsafe blocks are eliminated All the unsafe seems to be FFI? https://github.com/search?q=repo%3Aoven-sh%2Fbun+unsafe+lang... > and the code is turned into maintainable, readable, reasonably idiomatic Rust. I wonder how long is it going to take. This isn't a c2rust rewrite?
The rewrite's in https://github.com/oven-sh/bun/tree/claude/phase-a-port. By running the following command on it, I count about 14,000 unsafe blocks:
rg --stats -g '*.rs' 'unsafe \{|unsafe impl|#!?\[unsafe\('Earlier quoted context omitted.
"No one has the intention of building a wall" - Walter Ulbricht, chairman of the central committee, a couple of months before the Berlin Wall was built. The AI companies and their associates are beginning to surpass that level of denials and lies.
you know this whole exercise is both a marketing exercise and a way to make noise. would the world come to a standstill tomorrow if every Bun instance out there ran on Node.js ? they know their A.I can't sell without the noise that it's now on the edge of the frontier. this is hype. zig adopting a strict 'no LLM' policy affects the LLM vendors.
I’ve been thinking about setting up a non trivial project to use as a benchmark for any plugins and/or harness changes I make.
Having a prebuilt verification suite is great. You can use it to asses things like token usage, time, across different harnesses, models, plugins.
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Fwiw you don't need unsafe for graphs or linked lists in Rust. At least not directly - these things can be abstracted. The petgraph crate is the most popular for graphs. I'm not sure about linked lists because linked lists are the wrong choice 99.9% of the time. I've written hundreds of thousands of lines of Rust and outside of FFI, I've written I think one line of unsafe Rust.
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What a time to be alive. So much of the fundamental dynamics of the industry and the job have changed in so little time. Basically over night. Some days I am so excited at how much I can do now. You can build anything you want, in basically no time! 100% of my software dreams can be a reality. Some days I am terrified at what's going to happen to the job market. Suddenly you can get so much with so little. The world…
Around the time of the dot com crash, there was a decent amount of rhetoric advising students and job seekers against getting into the software industry, because it was getting "too saturated." The thinking was there's just not that much work to go around, especially for the number of people flocking to the field. And the crash just reinforced that narrative.
But even as a student back then, I could tell that there was unlimited scope for software. Pretty much any cognitive thing we do manually could be done in software. I once idly tried to enumerate those and quickly realized there was soooo much to do. Plus, I also understood that the more you do things a new way, a lot more things pop up that we haven't even imagined yet. The possibilities were countless. It was clear that the "saturation" narrative stemmed from a lack of people's imagination and understanding of what software really was.
I just knew that this field would never get saturated because it was impossible to run out of things to write software for.
But these days...
I mean, I know we will always have new software to build as things evolve, which they will do faster than ever with AI. But these days, I wonder if it's now possible to write software faster than we can imagine new things to do.
No doubt on my side porting was "easy". What I’d find interesting is the ability to maintain and properly care for the code over time for the next iterations. Do we eventually end up with a codebase that nobody truly understands in depth anymore, where everything is generated and modified through GenAI? Thanks for the sharing
But if you want it to coexist with humans, then it doesn't seem to work well. It gets in the way of human learning and human communication. Making professionals and teams weaker essentially
What does this mean for Zig? Few big popular projects use Zig, if they start to move away from it, what Zig's future will look like?
Zig is a very interesting LOW level language, but honestly I think it should be considered for what it is: a better C. I don't think it fits for anything that someone would have written in C++, Java, Haskell or C#. Instead, Rust is competitive with all of these languages when it comes to safety, abstractions and speed. And also C and Zig itself.
Zig has a couple very interesting ideas that make it stand out: comptime and the zig build system.
Alas, Zig is still far from being stable. Rust came out to the public in 2012 and became stable (1.0) in 2015. Zig came out to the public in 2016, and it's 10 years now and someone says it's still years away from 1.0.
So, while rust took 3 years of public development to become stable, zig is taking 10/15 years. I love the language, but TBH I don't see a great future ahead, especially with LLMs advancements that can use safer languages to do the same work. There's no point in risking more memory bugs when the effort for writing code is the same.
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you know this whole exercise is both a marketing exercise and a way to make noise. would the world come to a standstill tomorrow if every Bun instance out there ran on Node.js ? they know their A.I can't sell without the noise that it's now on the edge of the frontier. this is hype. zig adopting a strict 'no LLM' policy affects the LLM vendors.
If you think Claude needs manufactured hype at this point to sell it you're delusional.
Kinda crazy to use AI to switch from zig to rust in a tool that runs js. Bin bun and use a real lang to begin with. No reason to have that extra layer anymore.
But the effort is certainly an exquisite rearrangement of the deck chairs, no?