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Bun's experimental Rust rewrite hits 99.8% test compatibility on Linux x64 glibc

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Re: Bun's experimental Rust rewrite hits 99.8% test compatibility on Linux x64 glibc

#151

I think the industry is moving to English as the programming language, and specifications-context-tdd as the framework for building software. Many find it distasteful, and many finding liberating. I think it's broadly correlates with how they feel about expressing themselves in english vs say C++. As a side question, is there anyone who's using LLMs primarily in non-english mode to program? I suspect there's quite a…

I wonder how well Mandarin works for LLM-based programming. On one hand, it's very token efficient as Mandarin script is very dense in meaning. On the other, I suppose this can increase ambiguity.

I can speak, read, and write Taiwanese Mandarin (which is likely relatively underrepresented in the training sets and, which is, in my practical experience, materially different in its usage.)

The authoritative answer for this question would best come from the millions (or tens of millions) of Chinese-speakers who are currently using LLMs to write software.

However, it is my suspicion that you would see no advantages using any language other than English. While there is a certain token-level density to written texts, it seems the benefits of this (and the more recent discussion around “caveman talk”) are quite limited.

Furthermore, consider that the vast majority of textbooks, technical documentation, blog posts, StackOverflow answers, &c. are originally in English. Historically, where these have been translated to Chinese, the translations have often been of very poor quality (and the terminology and phraseology is often incomprehensible unless you also understand some English.) I would suspect that this makes up the overwhelming majority of the training sets for these models.

That said, my experience using the most recent models, is that they are surprisingly language-agnostic in a way that surpasses readily-available human capability. For example, I can prompt the LLM to translate English into something that uses German grammar, Chinese vocabulary, and Japanese characters, and I'll get an output that is worse than what a human expert could do… but where am I going to find a multilingual expert?

(Of course, I have so far only ever been impressed that a model could generate an output but never impressed with the output it did generate. Everything—translations, prose, code—seems universally sloppy and bland and muddy.)

So what I would anticipate the biggest benefit for a Chinese-speaker today… is that if they are disinterested in working internationally, they have significantly less dependency on learning English.

Re: Bun's experimental Rust rewrite hits 99.8% test compatibility on Linux x64 glibc

#152
post #74

From 4 days ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48019226 > I work on Bun and this is my branch > > This whole thread is an overreaction. 302 comments about code that does not work. We haven’t committed to rewriting. There’s a very high chance all this code gets thrown out completely. > > I’m curious to see what a working version of this looks, what it feels like, how it performs and if/how hard it’d be to get i…

"No one has the intention of building a wall" - Walter Ulbricht, chairman of the central committee, a couple of months before the Berlin Wall was built. The AI companies and their associates are beginning to surpass that level of denials and lies.

It’s disrespectful to immediately jump to adversarial conclusions from a simple desire to refactor and poor netiquette.

Re: Bun's experimental Rust rewrite hits 99.8% test compatibility on Linux x64 glibc

#153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unlike the GNU coreutils rewrite in Rust, the Bun rewrite in Rust is being undertaken by the owners of the project. That said, yes, you’re correct that Bun isn’t GPL: https://github.com/oven-sh/bun?tab=License-1-ov-file

Hmm, that's unfortunate - why does so much Rust stuff seem to default to MIT/BSD ? Just because Mozilla used that for most of the Rust stuff ? Do developers using Rust even know the difference ? Like how anyone can basically take all you work & base a proprietary fork on it with maybe saying "thanks" (attribution) if they feel like it ? :P

I'm very aware when I pick Apache-2. I want attribution for my work, but I don't care about open source purity. I respect closed source software and I put my open source code up for free because I don't care to profit off of my hobbies.

Re: Bun's experimental Rust rewrite hits 99.8% test compatibility on Linux x64 glibc

#154
post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When Microsoft rewrote it in go, there was a comment from one of the leads that they chose it over rust because of the similarity in paradigms (garbage collection, etc), and that using rust would've been more difficult, requiring a lot of "hoop jumping". Now that you've done it... Thoughts?

Yes indeed. More than 1 million lines of code (including tests) is jumping lots of hoops but with LLMs it's not as painful so you can just ask it to do the hard things. Example of a Claude Code session after 2 hours of "Crunching" that came out without results https://github.com/mohsen1/tsz/pull/4868 (Edit I force pushed to PR to solve the problem, you can see the initial refuse message in the initial version of PR d…

Do you have any write ups on your workflow with Claude and github dev?

Re: Bun's experimental Rust rewrite hits 99.8% test compatibility on Linux x64 glibc

#155
post #52

Presumably the biggest loser in all this is Zig, I only know of the language because of Bun. But the timescale still gives me pause… just because AI lets us convert a codebase in 6 days doesn’t mean it’s wise. There are surely a lot of downstream implications! It’s always felt a little like Bun is making up a plan as it goes along (and maybe that’s unfair), this seems to underline the point.

These tools let you get a massive codebase functional in 6 days. But, presumably, there's no better language to target than Rust (in terms of safety/performance), and therefore the rest of time can be spent making the birthed-in-6-days codebase better.

Re: Bun's experimental Rust rewrite hits 99.8% test compatibility on Linux x64 glibc

#156

6 days of work to do this. Even if it doesn't end up becoming meaningful, it shows just how tokens and work done will be linked now and in the future. It's going to be hard to compete with someone or a company that has more compute. They will just be able to do things you can't.

Translating a project that includes a good test suite from one language to another is known to be a great case where LLMs work well.

When you’re starting with a complete codebase to use as an example and a test suite to check everything it’s much easier to iterate toward the desired goal. The LLM can already see what the goals are and how they’ve been implemented once already, which is a much easier problem than starting from a spec.

Re: Bun's experimental Rust rewrite hits 99.8% test compatibility on Linux x64 glibc

#157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's why I said "the equivalent of". Additionally, time and cognitive effort are not free. The work spent on this branch was work that was not spent on other branches. Does that make sense?

6 days is also nothing when you're doing R&D on your company's dime. He could have spent a month trying a dozen different things and thrown away all the code at the end. As long as he ends that month with a clear picture of where to steer the company over the next 5 years, it's time well spent.

Had my former employers been so lenient with how I spend company time, I might still be an office worker instead of self-employed!

Re: Bun's experimental Rust rewrite hits 99.8% test compatibility on Linux x64 glibc

#158
post #75

Very impressive that they could do this so quickly because I have been on a similar project (porting TypeScript to Rust) for 5 months. But I guess I don't have access to Mythos and unlimited tokens. I'm also close to 100% pass rate. 99.6% at the time of writing. https://tsz.dev Rust is perfect for writing all of code using LLM. It's strict type system makes is less likely to make very dumb mistakes that other languag…

[flagged]

Zig isn’t so much on the blacklist because of the culture it carries from its maintainers, but because the ecosystem is no longer easily composed with other GitHub projects/GitHub Actions.

Re: Bun's experimental Rust rewrite hits 99.8% test compatibility on Linux x64 glibc

#159
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly

This is exactly how Anthropic will market this rewrite towards companies thinking about doing more layoffs. 1 person did a rust rewrite that took 6 days that would have taken hundreds of engineers more than a year to do.

> 1 person did a rust rewrite that took 6 days that would have taken hundreds of engineers more than a year to do.

The entire bun team was only about a dozen people and they wrote it from scratch.

It would not take hundreds of engineers to port the existing codebase to another language.

I think this is a cool experiment, but some of these claims are getting absurd.

Re: Bun's experimental Rust rewrite hits 99.8% test compatibility on Linux x64 glibc

#160
No doubt on my side porting was "easy". What I’d find interesting is the ability to maintain and properly care for the code over time for the next iterations. Do we eventually end up with a codebase that nobody truly understands in depth anymore, where everything is generated and modified through GenAI?

Thanks for the sharing

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