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Mythical Man Month

martinfowler.com

141–150 of 219 posts

Re: Mythical Man Month

#141

Notably, his essay “no silver bullet” states that there has never been a new technology or way of thinking or working that has led to a 10X increase in the speed of software development. That was true for almost seventy years until roughly last year. AI is the silver bullet - my output is genuinely 10X what it was before claude code existed.

First counterexample that comes to mind: Rails vs 90s networked/shared line-of-business crud app development was a 10x factor. It also enabled a lot of internal tools that wouldn't have been worth doing without it. But after people's expectations adjusted it was just back on the treadmill. I don't think we've found a new steady-state yet, but I have some gut feeling guesses about where it's going to be.

Ah, Fails. "Before we made x improvement, the app had to restart 400x a day, now it's only 10x!"

For all the complaining we do about "enshittification", we (Hackernews, the broader industry, whatever), are perfectly willing to pay the price of stability and performance to get a little development speed. That's one prong of how enshittification happens. "I can make compromises in the quality of my product because time to market is the one thing, the only thing that matters in this move-fast-break-things economy—and pass my savings on to the customer (in the form of hidden costs)!"

Re: Mythical Man Month

#142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First counterexample that comes to mind: Rails vs 90s networked/shared line-of-business crud app development was a 10x factor. It also enabled a lot of internal tools that wouldn't have been worth doing without it. But after people's expectations adjusted it was just back on the treadmill. I don't think we've found a new steady-state yet, but I have some gut feeling guesses about where it's going to be.

In particular if that steady-state requires 4 to 40GB blob of binary code to be installed or an internet connection to an AI SaaS provider and a credit card. I remember when coding was free as in beer and freedom!

It's okay. In the near future people will not own a computer of significant capability at all, so it's not like they'd even be able to develop without a cloud connection in the first place.

And, for the most part, they will be okay with this. Gen Alpha or Beta will tell each other how morally wrong it is to expect for everyone to own a computer or even a smartphone, citing the environmental impacts, slaves mining coltan, and the toxic emotional effects upon people who grew up in the Social Media Dark Ages. Much like present-day Hackernews feels about personal automobile ownership.

Re: Mythical Man Month

#143

Notably, his essay “no silver bullet” states that there has never been a new technology or way of thinking or working that has led to a 10X increase in the speed of software development. That was true for almost seventy years until roughly last year. AI is the silver bullet - my output is genuinely 10X what it was before claude code existed.

> AI is the silver bullet - my output is genuinely 10X what it was before claude code existed.

This reminds me of ThePrimeagen noting that Dario was right about 90% of all software being written by AI. 90%+ of all useful software is still being written by humans, but now we've also got non-programmers like Gary Tan pushing the button to generate garbage piles of AI generated code at 10x the volume of what humans are generating.

Or look at Claude Code itself, the poster child for what AI generated code looks like, especially when you're operating in YOLO "never mind the quality, count the LOC" mode. Over a half million lines of bug ridden crap when 10-50K could have done the job.

https://techtrenches.dev/p/the-snake-that-ate-itself-what-cl...

Re: Mythical Man Month

#144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't believe the 10x claims, but since when has salary been any indication of productivity?

Productivity is a value measured in dollars. So if you’re 10x more productive, someone somewhere is making 10x the $ value from your output. You should expect this to be reflected in the labour market somewhere. Maybe not your own salary, but in somebody’s salary.

One of the most important graphs in economics shows a divergence between increases in labor productivity and worker take home share since at least the 1970s

maybe you are thinking ceos or shareholders

Re: Mythical Man Month

#146
Loved Brooks’ and feel like I must’ve internalized his model because that’s all I care about anymore in dev. Coherence among the components (people or software) to produce something good. I think of if 100 pianos are tuned to the same tuning fork then they all play well together.

AI accelerated iteration and undisciplined use seem to me the main risk lately. Drift from any prompting, accumulation of features, plausible looking patches that are actually slop. Wrote about this recently [0], it creates a dynamic where you aren’t just making the software less coherent, you’re paying more and more to make it so. Curious to hear others experience of this.

[0] https://charlesleifer.com/blog/tokens-and-dreams/

Re: Mythical Man Month

#147
post #62
post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I haven't yet seen anyone with a concrete example project (public ideally, but even describing private efforts in enough detail to enable potential criticism would be fine) making a claim as strong as 10x. Are you willing to break the mould and show us what we're all missing?

It's more like ∞x (or N/Ax if you prefer) because the majority of the projects I did with LLM agents wouldn't have existed without them, because I would've never found enough time to work on them. One of the latest things I made with Claude was a tool that allowed me to move a bunch of very low traffic Cloud Run services to a single VPS without losing any of the Cloud Run benefits such as easy Docker-based deployment…

There have been plenty of libraries/tools that got people from "I would like to do foo" to "oh, this tool makes foo possible in under 10 hours, I should start working on foo" in the past. LLMs have done this for many foos, which is great.

But I'm with hansvm - I haven't actually seen anyone plausibly maintain 10x. 10x is different from getting people past their activation cost.

Re: Mythical Man Month

#148
post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I haven't yet seen anyone with a concrete example project (public ideally, but even describing private efforts in enough detail to enable potential criticism would be fine) making a claim as strong as 10x. Are you willing to break the mould and show us what we're all missing?

10x what? 10x revenue? 10x features shipped? Whats the measure, is it 10x speed of dev like parent comment? Because an unqualified 10x could mean 10x SLOC which is trivial with an agent but has negative value. Assuming 10x on the speed of dev, Is the vscode repo a decent example? Recently they've been all in on AI augmented development so i'm thinking they'd be a reasonable subject? How do you isolate out what counts…

Guarantee it’s the same story I get from all my friends/co workers who are now 10x… they are 10 times faster at starting random projects that get to 80% done that they can’t finish, so they immediately move on to the next project because their velocity is so high

Re: Mythical Man Month

#149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't completely blow away your argument, but you forked Immich and gave it to a LLM. Which is arguably slightly easier than starting from scratch. Nothing wrong with forks though.

Sounds like you're nitpicking on whether or not LLMs make you faster by saying that working on existing code is easier than starting from scratch? I think you've missed the point.

No, they're saying that it was misleading. OP said "I'm building an open source Google Photos alternative" and surprisingly didn't say "based on Immich". This dramatically changes the evaluation of "open-noodle".

We're now in an era where LoC is easy and design is hard[1]. Starting with an existing project means using an existing design, where someone else has already made many/most of the difficult decisions.

10Xing code without caring about design/UX/DX is trivial. Literally anybody with a token budget can do it. But they probably won't ship a good project. Not with current frontier models.

[1]: design has always been hard. But now it's even more difficult because of code veloocity and because LLMs are happier to work with bad code than humans. It's never been easier to go deep into rabbit holes without noticing a single issue.

Re: Mythical Man Month

#150
post #35

Fortunate to be reminded of this right now, especially the pull-quote about conceptual integrity. This is the reason why AI-assisted programming has not turned out to be the silver bullet we have been hoping for, at least yet. Muddled prompting by humans gets you the Homer Simpson car you wished for, that will eventually collapse under its own weight. I've been thinking a lot about Programming as Theory Building [0]…

We've found pyrite thinking it gold. Then we bought the whole saloon drinks and hookers.

The hangover tomorrow morning will not be pleasant. And the bar tab even less so.

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