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AWS North Virginia data center outage – resolved

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Re: AWS North Virginia data center outage – resolved

#161

I wonder if hetzner had better uptime in EU than AWS this year.

Why no love for OVH? I find Hetzner's UI to be super-confusing, making it hard to manage things.

Who said anything about ui? I just grab my project write key and Codex handles it all, no UI from idea to production at all.

Re: AWS North Virginia data center outage – resolved

#162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why no love for OVH? I find Hetzner's UI to be super-confusing, making it hard to manage things.

Who said anything about ui? I just grab my project write key and Codex handles it all, no UI from idea to production at all.

How do you know it isn't spending $99999 a month,m

Re: AWS North Virginia data center outage – resolved

#163
post #51

It's always East 1... Jokes aside I don't understand how often east-1 is taken down compared to other regions. Like it should be pretty similar to other regions architecture wise.

Amusingly: > AWS in 2025: The Stuff You Think You Know That’s Now Wrong > us-east-1 is no longer a merrily burning dumpster fire of sadness and regret. — https://www.lastweekinaws.com/blog/aws-in-2025-the-stuff-you... Otherwise a good article!

> Otherwise a good article!

Who is Gell-Mann and why is he so forgetful?

Re: AWS North Virginia data center outage – resolved

#164
post #34

AWS’s US-East 1 continues to be the Achilles heel of the Internet. And while yes building across multiple regions and AZs is a thing, AWS has had a string of issues where US-East 1 has broader impacts, which makes things far less redundant and resilient than AWS implies.

The idea that AWS's services are fully regionalized or isolated has always been a myth. All the identity and access services for the public cloud outside of China (aka "IAM for the aws partition" to employees) are centralized in us-east-1. This centralization is essentially necessary in order to have a cohesive view of an account, its billing, and its permissions. And IAM is not a wholly independent software stack: t…

> The idea that AWS's services are fully regionalized or isolated has always been a myth.

This is highly misleading. It's true that there's a handful of global AWS services - but only their control planes operate from a single region (e.g. us-east-1). Their data planes are regionally isolated or globally distributed.[1]

The only time you'd normally use a service control plane is to deploy changes, e.g. when you create, read, update or delete service resources or update configuration during a change window.

Workloads should be designed for "static stability", as recommended by AWS.[2] A statically stable workload only depends upon the data planes of the services it uses at runtime. Statically stable workloads are designed to continue operating as normal even if there's a service event impairing one or more control planes (including for global services).

> During us-east-1 outages it's sometimes possible to continue using existing auth tokens or sessions in other regions, while not possible to grant new ones.

This is just plain wrong! The IAM Security Token Service (STS), which grants IAM tokens, is a data plane-only service and runs independently in each region [3]. The IAM data plane, which enforces access control, is also regional.

If the IAM control plane is impaired, you might not be able to create new IAM roles (a control plane operation) - but you can continue generating and using temporary credentials for existing IAM roles (data plane operations) within the region your workload is running in. This allows statically stable workloads to continue using IAM without interruption.

[1] https://docs.aws.amazon.com/whitepapers/latest/aws-fault-iso...

"Global AWS services still follow the conventional AWS design pattern of separating the control plane and data plane in order to achieve static stability. The significant difference for most global services is that their control plane is hosted in a single AWS Region, while their data plane is globally distributed."

[2] https://docs.aws.amazon.com/whitepapers/latest/aws-fault-iso...

"...eliminating dependencies on control planes (the APIs that implement changes to resources) in your recovery path helps produce more resilient workloads."

[3] https://docs.aws.amazon.com/whitepapers/latest/aws-fault-iso...

"STS is a data plane-only service that is separate from IAM, and does not depend on the IAM control plane."

Re: AWS North Virginia data center outage – resolved

#165
post #34

AWS’s US-East 1 continues to be the Achilles heel of the Internet. And while yes building across multiple regions and AZs is a thing, AWS has had a string of issues where US-East 1 has broader impacts, which makes things far less redundant and resilient than AWS implies.

The idea that AWS's services are fully regionalized or isolated has always been a myth. All the identity and access services for the public cloud outside of China (aka "IAM for the aws partition" to employees) are centralized in us-east-1. This centralization is essentially necessary in order to have a cohesive view of an account, its billing, and its permissions. And IAM is not a wholly independent software stack: t…

IAM isn’t even really the most painful dependency. Route53 is. The control plane only runs out of use1.

Better make sure the only DNS operations you run during an outage are data plane queries and health check failovers.

Re: AWS North Virginia data center outage – resolved

#167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No backups?

I once worked at a company that had a wealth of backups. A backup generator, backup batteries as the generator takes a few seconds to start, a contract for emergency fuel deliveries, a complete failover data centre full of hot standby hardware, 24/7 ops presence, UPSes on the ops PCs just in case, weekly checks that the generators start, quarterly checks by turning off the breakers to the data centre, and so on. It w…

[deleted]

Re: AWS North Virginia data center outage – resolved

#168

Coinbase claimed multiple AZs were down but the AWS statement was that only a single AZ was affected. Does anyone have more details?

Coinbase confirmed on X that the exchange only ran in one AZ for latency reasons: https://x.com/i/status/2052855725857329254

Re: AWS North Virginia data center outage – resolved

#169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Too many people are using it. In fantasy magic dream land loads are distributed evenly across different cloud providers. A single point of failure doesn't exist. It worked out with my first girlfriend. The twins are fluent in English and Korean. They know when deploying a large scale service to not only depends on AWS. Healthcare in the US is affordable. All types of magical stuff exist here. But no. It's another day…

> It worked out with my first girlfriend. The twins are fluent in English and Korean. You were dating twins as a form of redundancy?!

Dual writes. You'd need to have the same conversation with both to keep them in sync.

Re: AWS North Virginia data center outage – resolved

#170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is almost definitely an issue of equipment failure. Cooling in datacenters is like everything else both over and under provisioned. It's overprovisioned in the sense that the big heat exchange units are N+1 (or in very critical and smaller load facilities 2N/3N). This is done because you need to regularly take these down for maintenance work and they have a relatively high failure rate compared to traditional DC…

I could totally get into “Ops Thriller” genre of novels like this.

there are dozens of us!
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