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Poland is now among the 20 largest economies

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Re: Poland is now among the 20 largest economies

#671

Post by jmalicki »

maxglute wrote: post #663
jmalicki wrote: post #654

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Samsung, Hyundai, or Huawei never happen without starting as FDI or cheap outsourcing.

FDI itself is not enough. Modern national champions happen because state protectionism, typically under autocratic industrial policy (Asian Tigers), in combination with FDI. Hyundai was suppose to be Honda, you can throw TSMC in there. There's no sign Poland is going to get national class to world class champions, because democracies more easily captured and EU forbids tier of subsidies and protectionism that enable…

The comments have already mentioned CD Projekt and elevenlabs which I would call world class companies even if not huge scale.

Re: Poland is now among the 20 largest economies

#672

Post by wswin »

VimEscapeArtist wrote: post #563

I live in Poland. This headline is misleading. Poland didn't build a top-20 economy. Western Europe and the US built their economy in Poland, because the labor is educated and cheap. There are almost no globally competitive Polish companies. The "growth" is branch offices of German and American corporations taking advantage of engineers who'll work for 40% of Berlin rates. Remove the foreign-owned sector and you're l…

It terms of the IT sector there is not much difference to the rest of the Europe. America has dominated the field, China is catching up, especially in global giants category.

Re: Poland is now among the 20 largest economies

#673

Post by lifestyleguru »

lo_zamoyski wrote: post #657
inglor_cz wrote: post #471

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IIRC Polish mathematicians were close to being the world's best prior to WWII, people like Banach and Tarski are remembered until today. Also, Enigma didn't get broken by Rejewski being cheap and subservient. Given how strong Poland used to be in mathematical logic, I can see an alternate history line where WWII does not happen and first computers are developed in Krakow and Lwow. But computer programming with Polish…

> IIRC Polish mathematicians were close to being the world's best prior to WWII That's right. The Lwów-Warsaw School, the Warsaw Schools, the Kraków School, and so on were big during the interbellum. There was a good deal of activity in the space of mathematics, logic, and philosophy within that scope (art, theater, film, literature, etc. had their respective flowerings). However, what I had in mind was that educatio…

Stanislaus II Augustus was a Russian tool, nobody ever felt in Poland like in ancient Rome. The few scientific achievements from the interwar period are gone forever without heritage or even continuity, and they're not even that impressing comparatively to other European countries. Modern Poles put all money into real estate and crypto scams, that's their intellectual sophistication.

Re: Poland is now among the 20 largest economies

#674

Post by cpursley »

10xDev wrote: post #485
cpursley wrote: post #305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I get it, we are being gaslit and pyoped at a massive scale across all channels about China and their supposed intentions. But proof is in the pudding, China is cutting deals all over the world, building infrastructure - all without forced regime changes or ideological prerequisites nor bombs.

"cutting deals" lol this was just yesterday: https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c0m2wjlkzplo Going by your history, you clearly have a strong bias for China but adding spyware or putting countries into debt isn't virtuous.

Irrelevant post, plenty of western spies working in China (and likely much better at it). Anyways, China never took a single dollar from my pocket nor bombed anyone in the last 30 years, so yeah - I’m going to push back on this idea of some inevitable clash with them that is being programmed into everyone.

Re: Poland is now among the 20 largest economies

#675

Post by mejutoco »

moondowner wrote: post #626
VimEscapeArtist wrote: post #563

I live in Poland. This headline is misleading. Poland didn't build a top-20 economy. Western Europe and the US built their economy in Poland, because the labor is educated and cheap. There are almost no globally competitive Polish companies. The "growth" is branch offices of German and American corporations taking advantage of engineers who'll work for 40% of Berlin rates. Remove the foreign-owned sector and you're l…

> Western Europe and the US built their economy in Poland, because the labor is educated and cheap. > There are almost no globally competitive Polish companies. Same issue in all southern and eastern European countries.

Why stop there. Make it all Europe and the Marshall plan.we can probably go back to the Roman empire if we try.

Re: Poland is now among the 20 largest economies

#676

Post by drysine »

brnt wrote: post #617
vkou wrote: post #556

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ukraine didn't have Russian troops occupying anything but the leased Crimean bases before the war started (and I do count the start of the war as being immediately after Euromaidan)... Yet in 2013, it was the second poorest country in Europe. (Ahead of Moldova, which has been occupied for decades, but significantly behind Belarus and Bulgaria)

They didn't need troops till Maidan. They had the government already.

Orange revolution in 2004 changed the Ukrainian government.

Re: Poland is now among the 20 largest economies

#677

Post by elbear »

badpun wrote: post #659
avgDev wrote: post #570

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What kind of dev salaries are you seeing in Poland? I have family in Poland, they are from smaller villages and they ALWAYS complain about EU and the economy. I wonder if things are similar in large cities.

Typical salary for a senior dev is around 20-30k PLN per month, which translates to $65k-$100k per year (gross). Also, a lot of devs do a little bit of tax avoidance that is currently not persecuted, which allows them to pay total taxes below 20% on that amount. So, your take-home pay is $50k-$80k.

That's a good salary, better than Romania on average. And if you also have lower prices (at least that's what I heard), even better then.

Re: Poland is now among the 20 largest economies

#678

Post by maxglute »

jmalicki wrote: post #671
maxglute wrote: post #663

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FDI itself is not enough. Modern national champions happen because state protectionism, typically under autocratic industrial policy (Asian Tigers), in combination with FDI. Hyundai was suppose to be Honda, you can throw TSMC in there. There's no sign Poland is going to get national class to world class champions, because democracies more easily captured and EU forbids tier of subsidies and protectionism that enable…

The comments have already mentioned CD Projekt and elevenlabs which I would call world class companies even if not huge scale.

> strategic Polish company

Keyword being Strategic, i.e. industrial pillar industries that sustains entire local industrial chains / ecosystem.

Re: Poland is now among the 20 largest economies

#679

Post by [deleted] »

hcurtiss wrote: post #425
s_dev wrote: post #304

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Think of it as an investment. An economic investment as well as one of solidarity. People forget that the EU is a peace project that ensures peace via economic cooperation. This nuance seems trivial but is actually massively important. I can see trust degrading in the US but being fortified across the EU. Look at Hungary recently, they did a 180 not because of Brussels or Berlin saying they should. Hungarians are sc…

They didn't do a 180 at all. Tusk basically shares Orban's entire platform, particularly vis-à-vis the EU. Orban just got caught in corruption scandals.

[deleted]

Re: Poland is now among the 20 largest economies

#680

Post by lee »

delis-thumbs-7e wrote: post #339
steve_adams_86 wrote: post #208

Years ago I bought some really nice brushless motors and was surprised to see they were made in Poland. I had no idea they were manufacturers of things like that. Later I bought even nicer motors, meant to provide exceptional control and feedback for tactile/haptic behaviours, and they were from Poland too. Then I got to work on a robotic arm which contained a bunch of components from Poland. At this point it was cle…

As A Finn I’d like to see Canada figure out that “oh shit we could be a world superpower with all the smarts and natural resources we have” and start trading culture and goods with Nordic countries. We would rule!

There is a saying I've heard: "Silicon Valley is powered by Waterloo Grads"

The problem with Canadian innovation is that our best and brightest tend to complete their education in Canada, then emigrate to the US. The brain drain is a real issue for us.

One of the "positives" of Trump's hostilities towards Canada is that perhaps this would slow the brain drain for the current generation.

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