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Google Cloud Fraud Defence is just WEI repackaged

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Re: Google Cloud Fraud Defence is just WEI repackaged

#191

Post by EGreg »

kogasa240p wrote: post #139
EGreg wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't you see it closing all around you? It's not just Google. It's governments, corporations, all around the world, simultaneously. The noose is being tightened gradually, then all at once. And it's coming for all of us: https://community.qbix.com/t/increasing-state-of-surveillanc... The threats above interlock by design or convergence: Identity layer (1-5) creates the prerequisite for the others. Once identity is e…

[flagged]

I refer you to all my own comments about decentralized solutions, which you can see in my history. And the posts that have been flagged after amassing too many upvotes. I think that's sufficient.

Re: Google Cloud Fraud Defence is just WEI repackaged

#192

Post by imglorp »

newphone733 wrote: post #107
ocdtrekkie wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> rapidly becoming Always has been. Google was creating cartels like the "Open Handset Alliance" literally decades ago. Via their control of Chrome and Search which are both monopolies, Google holds absolute authority on how websites are rendered and if websites can be found.

They lost their search monopoly when LLMs came.

Lost? No, they shoveled search into the furnace day after day as they prioritized sewage like paid results, link farms, and blog spam while burying the actual result far below, if returned at all. LLM showed up and gave you the direct answer you wanted in <1s; you don't even have to read the shitty troll result page.

Re: Google Cloud Fraud Defence is just WEI repackaged

#193

Post by llbbdd »

everdrive wrote: post #174
llbbdd wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it just a matter of not trusting the OS? I'm trying to figure out why "smart phone" is the discriminator here.

A smart phone _could_ be legitimate and free and open, but in practice it's not. This is a constraint based on the reality of the market, not really based on what is strictly possible with the technology. I don't get too deep into this, but at a very high level, this is what I dislike about smartphones. - Touchscreen user interface is objectively worse than a mouse and keyboard. Portability is the the only benefit to…

Yeah I'm aware of all of this, it's just the framing that confused me. A lot of these boil down to "nobody should own or use a smart phone to do anything" which is a bit of a different and less specific pitch than "nobody should browse the web on a smart phone".

Re: Google Cloud Fraud Defence is just WEI repackaged

#194

Post by majorchord »

vel0city wrote: post #177
MSFT_Edging wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Chrome is a monopoly by extending the internet in ways that force users into chrome. Due to market share and Google's prevalence, they have the sway to introduce things that cannot meaningfully be avoided without extreme siloing.

Outside of WebUSB I personally haven't meaningfully been impacted in any ways. Can you share which ways this is? Note, this is separate from a "so many things are just Chromium", which I agree is an issue, but isn't the same as a " Google Chrome is a monopoly ". Because in the end there are still many non-Chrome browsers which support WebUSB which do not end up with a lot of the downsides of Chrome specifically about…

Do you actually think the majority of everyone else is being just as pedantic (or cares) about Google Chrome vs chromium-based?

For most, for the purposes of market share (the type of "monopoly" I believe they are referring to), I think they count it as one and the same.

Re: Google Cloud Fraud Defence is just WEI repackaged

#195

Post by vel0city »

CursedSilicon wrote: post #185
vel0city wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Outside of WebUSB I personally haven't meaningfully been impacted in any ways. Can you share which ways this is? Note, this is separate from a "so many things are just Chromium", which I agree is an issue, but isn't the same as a " Google Chrome is a monopoly ". Because in the end there are still many non-Chrome browsers which support WebUSB which do not end up with a lot of the downsides of Chrome specifically about…

Ah, the "this doesn't fit my very specific technicality argument " You know full well what people mean when they say "Chrome"

> You know full well what people mean when they say "Chrome"

Yeah, Chrome, the web browser made by Google that bugs you to sign in with your Google Account. Most people don't mean Microsoft Edge when you say "Chrome". Do you call Microsoft Edge "Chrome"?

Chrome is a product made by Google that is a web browser. If the argument is Chromium is too interwoven, that's a separate argument.

But even then, what does it mean that "Chromium is a monopoly"? Is Linux a monopoly as well? Why or why not?

Note you haven't actually given me any other ways one would be impacted like I asked. What are the other majorly missing features Chrome pushes that other browsers don't have that most sites require? What else am I missing by not using a non-Chromium-based browser?

Re: Google Cloud Fraud Defence is just WEI repackaged

#196

Post by vel0city »

majorchord wrote: post #194
vel0city wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Outside of WebUSB I personally haven't meaningfully been impacted in any ways. Can you share which ways this is? Note, this is separate from a "so many things are just Chromium", which I agree is an issue, but isn't the same as a " Google Chrome is a monopoly ". Because in the end there are still many non-Chrome browsers which support WebUSB which do not end up with a lot of the downsides of Chrome specifically about…

Do you actually think the majority of everyone else is being just as pedantic (or cares) about Google Chrome vs chromium-based? For most, for the purposes of market share (the type of "monopoly" I believe they are referring to), I think they count it as one and the same.

Do most people call Microsoft Edge or Safari "Chrome"?

Are the security and privacy implications the same for Edge, Safari, and Chrome?

Seems to me like they're still quite different products despite having some similar codebases!

Re: Google Cloud Fraud Defence is just WEI repackaged

#197

Post by majorchord »

vel0city wrote: post #195
CursedSilicon wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah, the "this doesn't fit my very specific technicality argument " You know full well what people mean when they say "Chrome"

> You know full well what people mean when they say "Chrome" Yeah, Chrome, the web browser made by Google that bugs you to sign in with your Google Account. Most people don't mean Microsoft Edge when you say "Chrome". Do you call Microsoft Edge "Chrome"? Chrome is a product made by Google that is a web browser. If the argument is Chromium is too interwoven, that's a separate argument. But even then, what does it mean…

> what does it mean that "Chromium is a monopoly"

As someone else said earlier, it is a monopoly by extending the internet in ways that force users into using their browser engine. Due to market share and Google's prevalence, they have the sway to introduce things that cannot meaningfully be avoided without extreme siloing.

> What are the other majorly missing features Chrome pushes that other browsers don't have that most sites require?

This is a different question, please don't move the goalposts.

Re: Google Cloud Fraud Defence is just WEI repackaged

#198

Post by vel0city »

majorchord wrote: post #197
vel0city wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You know full well what people mean when they say "Chrome" Yeah, Chrome, the web browser made by Google that bugs you to sign in with your Google Account. Most people don't mean Microsoft Edge when you say "Chrome". Do you call Microsoft Edge "Chrome"? Chrome is a product made by Google that is a web browser. If the argument is Chromium is too interwoven, that's a separate argument. But even then, what does it mean…

> what does it mean that "Chromium is a monopoly" As someone else said earlier, it is a monopoly by extending the internet in ways that force users into using their browser engine. Due to market share and Google's prevalence, they have the sway to introduce things that cannot meaningfully be avoided without extreme siloing. > What are the other majorly missing features Chrome pushes that other browsers don't have tha…

> by extending the internet in ways that force users into using their browser engine

And yet after multiple times of me asking you've yet to give me a single real feature lost.

> This is a different question

Its literally the thing we're saying is the problem, how is it a different question entirely?!

You're saying the problem is they're adding features that force Chromium, but asking about which features you're talking about is just bringing up unrelated and different questions.

Re: Google Cloud Fraud Defence is just WEI repackaged

#199

Post by jonas21 »

moritzwarhier wrote: post #190
jeroenhd wrote: post #131

I saw this coming from miles away. Computers are better at solving CAPTCHAs than people are and people can be bribed or convinced to join botnets so IP whitelisting doesn't work either. Now we have tons of fingerprinting and behaviour analysis but governments are cracking down on that. Plus, YouTube had a massive ad fraud problem with ads being played back in the background in embedded videos, so their detection clea…

> saw this coming from miles away. Computers are better at solving CAPTCHAs than people are good point... it's interesting how Captcha was initially popularized as a reverse Turing test, but it's just variants of Proof of Work today. And it seemed clever at the time for Google to leverage this for improvement of their OCR models (it was!), and makes you wonder what utility is derived from the proven "work" today.

CAPTCHAs were designed as a type of Turing Test, not a reverse Turing Test. It’s not surprising that the effectiveness of these weaker variants has collapsed, given that AI can now pass the real Turing Test.

Re: Google Cloud Fraud Defence is just WEI repackaged

#200

Post by Dylan16807 »

vel0city wrote: post #113
ocdtrekkie wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> rapidly becoming Always has been. Google was creating cartels like the "Open Handset Alliance" literally decades ago. Via their control of Chrome and Search which are both monopolies, Google holds absolute authority on how websites are rendered and if websites can be found.

It cracks me up when people say Chrome is a monopoly, because a massive amount of computing devices do not even ship with Chrome. Windows computers, Macbooks, and iPhones require users go search out and install Chrome on their own out of their own volition, shipping with entirely functional and decent browsers out of the box that they have lots of patterns to push. Even many Android phones ship with browsers other th…

Why do you keep talking about who installs the app? That has nothing to do with whether something is a monopoly, which is primarily about market share.
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