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Poland is now among the 20 largest economies

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Re: Poland is now among the 20 largest economies

#651
post #90
post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most of the subsidies go back to the western Europe in the form of cheap products, and cheap labor. Also these subsidies were used to buy technology, machinery and goods from the West. Let's have Germany pay few trillions in reparations, and we can give back the billions in subsidies. Deal?

Sure, Germany pays reparations, Poland gives back Pomerania and Silesia (which were part of the reparations) and Western Europe forms a new EU so we don't have to deal with Poles any longer. Deal?

Germany lost the war. That's just small price they should be paying for exterminating millions of people and destroying many countries. And these lands were Polish, and Czech way before there were Germans. That's why Prussia had a systematic depolonization going on in the 1800s on these lands. They wanted remove the inhabitants of these lands for a long time..

Re: Poland is now among the 20 largest economies

#652

I live in Poland. This headline is misleading. Poland didn't build a top-20 economy. Western Europe and the US built their economy in Poland, because the labor is educated and cheap. There are almost no globally competitive Polish companies. The "growth" is branch offices of German and American corporations taking advantage of engineers who'll work for 40% of Berlin rates. Remove the foreign-owned sector and you're l…

How do you think China grew so much after 1990? A lot of FDI, a lot of protectionism. And look where they are today.

Re: Poland is now among the 20 largest economies

#654

I live in Poland. This headline is misleading. Poland didn't build a top-20 economy. Western Europe and the US built their economy in Poland, because the labor is educated and cheap. There are almost no globally competitive Polish companies. The "growth" is branch offices of German and American corporations taking advantage of engineers who'll work for 40% of Berlin rates. Remove the foreign-owned sector and you're l…

Yeah I think this what most miss. FDI is good, great if eventually lead to domestic brand to capture more % of value, like Asian Tigers. I'm not sure if the case in EU, some GDP accounting can grossly conflate actual FDI contribution, i.e. when PRC captured $6 labour for each iphone assembled but it was counting full device cost $100s towards GDP instead of just value add. Same concept as Ireland GDP & corporate tax…

Samsung, Hyundai, or Huawei never happen without starting as FDI or cheap outsourcing.

Re: Poland is now among the 20 largest economies

#655

One of the most underrated countries in Europe to visit if you’re a fan of history, architecture or food. I am so blessed to Be able to go every year and am hoping for continued prosperity for both Poland and the region.

What food would you recommend?

Re: Poland is now among the 20 largest economies

#656
Not at all surprising. If you look at the history of the Polish Lithuanian Commonwealth it was very similar to the dynamism of the Holy Roman Empire in what we now think of as the German speaking lands. Except you combine that with some even more modern ideas including minimal centralization of power and you realize there was a real renaissance era there. Kosciusko contributing greatly to the American Revolution is a wonderful example of this.

Of course being sandwiched between two extremely powerful regional hegemons did not serve Poland well. It's wonderful that it is now able to pick up the pieces. The poles no more than anyone the terrible realities that we must continue to be willing to fight for

Re: Poland is now among the 20 largest economies

#657

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You mean "MBA for a fee" Collegium Tumanum, or the best elite two universities which globally barely rank somewhere in the fifth hundred? Sorry it's not education. Poles are cheap and subservient, while cutthroat among each other.

IIRC Polish mathematicians were close to being the world's best prior to WWII, people like Banach and Tarski are remembered until today. Also, Enigma didn't get broken by Rejewski being cheap and subservient. Given how strong Poland used to be in mathematical logic, I can see an alternate history line where WWII does not happen and first computers are developed in Krakow and Lwow. But computer programming with Polish…

> IIRC Polish mathematicians were close to being the world's best prior to WWII

That's right. The Lwów-Warsaw School, the Warsaw Schools, the Kraków School, and so on were big during the interbellum. There was a good deal of activity in the space of mathematics, logic, and philosophy within that scope (art, theater, film, literature, etc. had their respective flowerings).

However, what I had in mind was that education has always been important, with formal education beginning in the Middle Ages with the first cathedral/collegiate schools. And because Poland became increasingly republican in nature, demanding skillful articulation, argument, and diplomacy as a matter of statecraft, Latin culture was of such a high standard that, during the Renaissance and early modern period, foreigners would comment that they felt as though they were visting ancient Rome given the high level of Latin proficiency. I should also mention that the world's first ministry of education was founded in Poland in the 18th century during the reign of Stanislaus II Augustus, creating, among other things, the first comprehensive, state-mandated natural science curricula.

During the subsequent partitions and foreign occupations when germanization and russification campaigns were inflicted on the populace and severe restrictions on the Polish language were put in place, clandestine home schooling, underground education networks, and "floating universities" allowed the culture to survive. So it has a deeply-ingrained and special importance across a range of concerns, from Scholastic libertas to senatorial virtus to cultural survival to so-called "positivist" industry.

> Given how strong Poland used to be in mathematical logic, I can see an alternate history line where WWII does not happen and first computers are developed in Krakow and Lwow.

Indeed. Further evidence of this is that even under the restrictive and crippling policies of the communist state and Soviet influence, you still had a surprising amount of innovation in this space.

> But computer programming with Polish keywords would indeed be a bit of a hell ;)

What would really be delicious is an inflected, synthetic programming language. ;)

Re: Poland is now among the 20 largest economies

#658

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm curious what this means in real terms from the perspective of a Pole. GDP/capita is often a relatively useless metric in modern times. For instance Ireland has one of the highest GDP/capitas in the world -- around 50% higher than the US. But that's because of economic games with their working as a tax haven to enable corporations to avoid paying taxes to their home countries. It doesn't translate to anything for…

> GDP/capita is often a relatively useless metric in modern times. "Often" is the wrong modifier. GDP/capita aligns very closely with material standard of living for the median person. If you look at the GDP/capita growth in India and China since 1990, or South Korea, Singapore, and Taiwan, since 1950, that reflects very real increases in material standards for ordinary people. There's two, relatively well-understood…

Isn’t GDP pretty easy to boost with deregulation and government overspending, at least in the short term? Neither of which benefits the people.

Re: Poland is now among the 20 largest economies

#659
post #570

I live in Poland. This headline is misleading. Poland didn't build a top-20 economy. Western Europe and the US built their economy in Poland, because the labor is educated and cheap. There are almost no globally competitive Polish companies. The "growth" is branch offices of German and American corporations taking advantage of engineers who'll work for 40% of Berlin rates. Remove the foreign-owned sector and you're l…

What kind of dev salaries are you seeing in Poland? I have family in Poland, they are from smaller villages and they ALWAYS complain about EU and the economy. I wonder if things are similar in large cities.

Typical salary for a senior dev is around 20-30k PLN per month, which translates to $65k-$100k per year (gross). Also, a lot of devs do a little bit of tax avoidance that is currently not persecuted, which allows them to pay total taxes below 20% on that amount. So, your take-home pay is $50k-$80k.

Re: Poland is now among the 20 largest economies

#660

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Much of the stabilization was due to the strong domestic market. Recall that Poland was the only country to avoid the 2008/2009 recession. It is tight global integration that causes recessions to spread.

Brazil also famously avoided the 2008-09 recession to a great extent, to name one example. Tight global integration is not a bad thing. Even if we took at face value your argument that a strong domestic market protected Poland in that case, you can't cherry pick the one instance in which lower-than-expected integration was beneficial without also considering all the other times in which it was harmful.

But this was largely the particular cause in this case... The strong domestic market insulated the economy from international economic shocks.
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