If they believe it's OK to cane the kids, why limit it to boys? Girls can also be extremely nasty to each other
[flagged]
[deleted]
Singapore introduces caning for boys who bully others at school
451–460 of 713 posts
Re: Singapore introduces caning for boys who bully others at school
#452Earlier quoted context omitted.
That’s “zero tolerance” hard at work. Wouldn't want a kid who is being bullied to think about retaliating. Also, because the bully can time the bullying, the initial event is often missed, but the victim is caught retaliating. It sounds fair on paper, but punishing everybody involved does not work.
Zero tolerance can lead to a new type of bullying: state sponsored. I remember a younger colleague who talked about her school experience, this was just at the start of zero tolerance because there was a belief that bullying caused school gun violence. Bullies quickly found out it was easy to just report "weird" kids as potential shooters and let the school torment them with investigations.
> Zero tolerance can lead to a new type of bullying: state sponsored.
Absolutely. The more of a victim you're perceived the more attention and the more punishment the bully gets. If the system overreacts, bullies would be stupid not to use the over-reaction in their favor. One of the kids at my daughter's school figured it out and was getting others in trouble by falling down then telling the teacher so and so pushed her and that was like 2nd grade. They can also team up together to accumulate these reports against student they don't like and just let the state come down on them and ruin their life.
Re: Singapore introduces caning for boys who bully others at school
#453Earlier quoted context omitted.
Middle America peaks in High School. Local games are televised and commentated even during the regular season. The TV series Friday Night Lights is a reasonable reference as an outsider
Can any Americans confirm this? Were your high school sports games televised and commentated?
For football, yes. Although I think it only broadcast on some small cable TV channel that you had to get special access for. There definitely were small media crews at the games (I was in the band; I went to most of them).
One year I was there, the football team made it to the state championship, and got to play in one of the big 70K-seat stadiums the NFL teams use. About half of our small town bought tickets and went to it.
I just checked, looks like mine is one of many schools that streams games live on here: https://www.nfhsnetwork.com/
Re: Singapore introduces caning for boys who bully others at school
#454Earlier quoted context omitted.
You can also use the school staff to help you bully other kids. Play the victim, they can't allow that, now the other kid is in trouble for nothing. Start a fight knowing you'll both get into trouble, laugh at the other kid who is in trouble because of your choices.
Bullying via playing the victim can work after school too. Eg. some legal cases are like this.
It works too well. Especially with the "first to call" or "first to complain" gets automatically a 500 point boost in credibility. "Clearly if they called the police first, the to other party must be at fault".
Re: Singapore introduces caning for boys who bully others at school
#455Earlier quoted context omitted.
Expel the kid I want everyone to succeed as much as possible, I feel bad for such kids. But at that point, the kid won’t learn, won’t launch, there’s no benefit to keeping them in school and massive consequences for the good kids.
Two problems: 1) school education is mandatory until 16-18 in most countries, so what do you do with them once they get expelled. They have to be in education somewhere - so do you just put them in one school for all the expelled students, which is just constantly on fire? You made the problem much worse for yourself(as in - the state). 2) " there’s no benefit to keeping them in school and massive consequences for th…
This is the mentality that turns public schools into zoos and drives families with means to private.
Re: Singapore introduces caning for boys who bully others at school
#456Earlier quoted context omitted.
After seeing with my own two eyes how soft touch policing and parenting leads to a shitty society for everyone I’m completely in favour of this. Singapore, Japan, among other Asian countries are safe and prosperous for a reason - if you do no wrong, you have nothing to fear. In London we recently had a swarm of youths raid supermarkets and shoplift. Most of them got off scot free. Even tenured criminals are getting o…
I was in day care one day as a small child when another child threw a ball of clay and it hit the woman who was watching us. She did not see who had thrown the ball of clay but for some reason decided I was the one who had done it. My mother worked at the day care but was away on a vacation that week. She had told the director of the day care that she was allowed to spank me if I acted up. I was taken to a broom clos…
It is the threat of competent violence that keeps me from, say, sunbathing in a park without clothes on, on a nice day. Our world runs on violence, but we mostly try to deny it, because it serves the few that control the many to keep the many divided.
Your example says more about the costs of getting details wrong in punishment, than about punishment.
Re: Singapore introduces caning for boys who bully others at school
#457Singapore also hangs people for possessing weed.
And that makes it a super pleasant place to live, I don't ever have to smell that junk on the street. I prefer the smell of good food and that's pretty much what all of Singapore smells like.
Re: Singapore introduces caning for boys who bully others at school
#458Earlier quoted context omitted.
All those differences do impact roles in society. They let women breastfeed. They give men greater physical strength. Other biological differences make women become pregnant. These will affect roles in society. I am a proponent of paternity leave. The counter argument is always based on biological differences. So are the arguments for not having women in many roles in the armed forces. > gender is a human invention.…
Where exactly is the physical strength of males necessary in modern society? The only circumstance in which there are men strong enough to so something that women can't do is at the most elite level of athletics. Any role relevant to society that would require that level of strength, we have machines for, because the majority of men and women are not elite powerlifters, and because they probably need way more strengt…
> Where exactly is the physical strength of males necessary in modern society?
Bricklayers? Much manual labour. Some women can do it, some men cannot, but far more men can do it than women.
> People with different skin colours have different resiliences to sun exposure, but just because the sun is a big part of our life doesn't mean we NEED to shape society around those biological differences.
We have very simple fixes for that - such as clothing and protective sun creams. The same does not apply to physical differences between men and women.
> I don't see why those biological features need to affect roles as much as (some) people seem to think they should.
Not as much as some people think they should. It really depends what specific views you are thinking of. There are important differences: for example, women do initially need more parental leave to recover from giving birth. I think its a good idea to give men as much, but with different timing. Pregnancy has huge physical effects for quite a long time.
It goes both ways too. There wold be real social advantages to having more men becoming nurses (which can benefit from physical strength) and teaching (so boys, especially disadvantaged boys, have male educated role models).
Re: Singapore introduces caning for boys who bully others at school
#459Earlier quoted context omitted.
I can't tell if you're being deliberately obtuse / sarcastic, but even aside from the ethical considerations here, prison is an insanely expensive way of dealing with the issue. In the US in 2010, cost per inmate per year in a state prison ranges between $14,603 (Kentucky) and $60,076 (New York), and averages at $31,286. That's 16 years ago, so it'll be higher now. In the UK it was an average of £32,315 in 2020-21. Y…
I was quoted a figure of approx. £200,000 per year for each patient at the Royal Edinburgh Hospital by someone who works there but I can't vouch for it. I know someone who has been in there a year. :( Carstairs, where violent psychiatric patients go, is probably even more.
Sorry to hear that - I knew someone who was sectioned in the Royal Edinburgh about 30 years ago now. A really difficult place to visit emotionally. I can believe it's expensive given the kinds of difficulties the patients are experiencing.
Re: Singapore introduces caning for boys who bully others at school
#460I've never understood the illiberal desire to treat boys and girls so differently. I'm glad I live in a country where sexism is illegal at a fundamental level -- this kind of law would be quickly struck down.
Maybe it's based on millions of years of biological differences in their capacities and functions (starting from body strength and role in reproduction), plus differences in social roles, of which some of the latter might be arbitrary, but some are necessary adjustments every historical society understood.
How on earth is that an acceptable argument for physical abuse that is directed purely at boys?
I'm not saying girls should be beaten too. But the ethical blindness here is striking.
Besides, girls are just as much capable of bullying as boys are. Society might have taught them to use different methods, but that doesn't make it any more acceptable or any less vicious.