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Singapore introduces caning for boys who bully others at school

theguardian.com

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Re: Singapore introduces caning for boys who bully others at school

#421

Post by maxloh »

quiet35 wrote: post #78

I see at least 2 issues with the physical punishment: - it will only make the bullies taking their revenge on vulnerable ones with even more cruelty. And they will plan it carefully to be hard/impossible to prove. It will lead to the escalation, not to the resolution - the power will be abused, it's inevitable. I would be so scared to be in a class where "teacher" has the power to harm me physically! (to clarify: I a…

Those are valid arguments.

I believe a better approach might be installing surveillance cameras in classrooms and hallways, then expelling bullies once their actions are confirmed by footage.

Perhaps we could establish "special schools for confirmed bullies," where students who show improvement could eventually be "promoted" back to mainstream schools.

Only then can we truly protect innocent victims.

Re: Singapore introduces caning for boys who bully others at school

#422

Post by gwbas1c »

imtringued wrote: post #202
xienze wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This sounds crazy, I know, but perhaps boys and girls are different.

This comment explains absolutely nothing and it feels utterly irrelevant in either direction and probably shouldn't have been posted. It can be read negatively against boys or negatively against girls so why post it?

"but perhaps boys and girls are different" should be interpreted as a joke; specifically satire on people who actively push that there are no differences between the sexes.

---

To bring some context:

I have a friend who called up other friends in the group and repeats over and over that there's no difference between the sexes, that it's artificial, ect. He did this when he dated a trans woman, yet didn't seem to realize that his partner felt so strongly about their gender that they changed it.

Re: Singapore introduces caning for boys who bully others at school

#424

Post by georgeburdell »

triceratops wrote: post #414
watchful_moose wrote: post #341

Earlier quoted context omitted.

this can only be effective if the school isn't counting on the bully to help the school win various sports competitions over the next few years. often the school is in a tough spot because the only reason some jocks are there is for their sport ability, that the school needs.

American colleges I can understand. But other than bragging rights, why should a high school give enough of a shit about championships to look the other way on bullying?

Middle America peaks in High School. Local games are televised and commentated even during the regular season. The TV series Friday Night Lights is a reasonable reference as an outsider

Re: Singapore introduces caning for boys who bully others at school

#425

Post by almostjazz »

mantas wrote: post #392
almostjazz wrote: post #365

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where exactly is the physical strength of males necessary in modern society? The only circumstance in which there are men strong enough to so something that women can't do is at the most elite level of athletics. Any role relevant to society that would require that level of strength, we have machines for, because the majority of men and women are not elite powerlifters, and because they probably need way more strengt…

There's lots and lots of jobs where physical strength makes a fuckton difference. I don't see construction workers, garbage people or figherfighters using exoskeletons yet. Also, ask women how their mood and abilities swing during their cycles. Both menstrual and life cycle with menopause and stuff. Some have it easy, but many women I know have quite big swings in both cases. And yet modern society requires one to pe…

There are women construction workers, garbage people, and firefighters. There are much better reasons why these fields have disproportionately fewer women than a biological barrier to the required level of strength.

I am interested to hear what career or societal role you think a women cannot or should not do because of menstrual related mood swings. Because it clearly isn't President of the United States or billionaire CEO.

Re: Singapore introduces caning for boys who bully others at school

#426

Post by TimorousBestie »

giraffe_lady wrote: post #413
rayiner wrote: post #381

It’s a tragedy that scholars don’t study Singapore more to understand what it did right. When my dad was born in what was then Pakistan, Singapore (then part of Malaysia) was a poor country. Today it’s rich but the subcontinent is still poor. The best thing all these so-called “humanitarians” could do to improve the human condition would be to study Singapore to understand how that model can be translated to all the…

The secret is maintaining a permanently impoverished underclass without labor rights or a path to citizenship! Much to learn here, indeed.

No, the real secret is an expansive list of capital crimes! Or maybe it’s the public flogging. It’s hard to tell.

Re: Singapore introduces caning for boys who bully others at school

#427

Post by maxloh »

davyAdewoyin wrote: post #83
quiet35 wrote: post #78

I see at least 2 issues with the physical punishment: - it will only make the bullies taking their revenge on vulnerable ones with even more cruelty. And they will plan it carefully to be hard/impossible to prove. It will lead to the escalation, not to the resolution - the power will be abused, it's inevitable. I would be so scared to be in a class where "teacher" has the power to harm me physically! (to clarify: I a…

As I previously mentioned, if you actually grew up in a system where corporal punishment is carried out, you would find that point two is not such a bother. No one cares whether a parent or teacher can cane them except they were in the wrong of course, perhaps because it is a culture and a shared experience and I knew a lot of children growing up who prefer the canning to other form of punishment. I think the issue l…

I think you’re missing the point.

A teacher’s like or dislike of a student is often irrational and based on personal emotion; they are human beings, after all. The real issue is that they wield significant power with very few checks and balances. They are essentially dictators. They work within a system where colleagues often cover one another’s works rather than questioning each other’s professional conduct.

It is far too dangerous to grant them the power of corporal punishment while simply hoping they will remain fair. I believe that in every school, there is at least one teacher who would abuse it.

Re: Singapore introduces caning for boys who bully others at school

#428

Post by ecshafer »

blks wrote: post #208
xienze wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This sounds crazy, I know, but perhaps boys and girls are different.

When you impose gender ideology, gender roles on them from age 0, yeah you will get vastly different outcomes for boys and girls.

I have kids. Children are not a tabula rasa. Boys and Girls act very differently almost right from Birth, and it becomes so much more pronounced as they grow.

Re: Singapore introduces caning for boys who bully others at school

#429

Post by threethirtytwo »

nephihaha wrote: post #275
armchairhacker wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Expel the kid I want everyone to succeed as much as possible, I feel bad for such kids. But at that point, the kid won’t learn, won’t launch, there’s no benefit to keeping them in school and massive consequences for the good kids.

You expel them and they become another person's problem. I heard recently of a local problem child aged seven. He's already been expelled from a private school but has entered a state school where he seriously injured another pupil and attempted to strangle one of the teachers. Expulsion isn't going to reform them, it will just move it on elsewhere.

No this is not true. Expulsion works in many cases. The idea of getting expelled prevents a lot of problems. A lot of people avoid doing things that will get them expelled but this of course doesn't apply to everyone including the person in your example.

It's similar to how prison is a deterrent to crime. But it doesn't change the fact that there are people who still do crimes and get into prison.

Re: Singapore introduces caning for boys who bully others at school

#430

Post by nephihaha »

frereubu wrote: post #329
21asdffdsa12 wrote: post #292

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So directly to prison. Or must they succeed first?

I can't tell if you're being deliberately obtuse / sarcastic, but even aside from the ethical considerations here, prison is an insanely expensive way of dealing with the issue. In the US in 2010, cost per inmate per year in a state prison ranges between $14,603 (Kentucky) and $60,076 (New York), and averages at $31,286. That's 16 years ago, so it'll be higher now. In the UK it was an average of £32,315 in 2020-21. Y…

I was quoted a figure of approx. £200,000 per year for each patient at the Royal Edinburgh Hospital by someone who works there but I can't vouch for it. I know someone who has been in there a year. :( Carstairs, where violent psychiatric patients go, is probably even more.
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