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Poland is now among the 20 largest economies

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Re: Poland is now among the 20 largest economies

#201

Post by Forgeties79 »

jillesvangurp wrote: post #149
niemandhier wrote: post #76

I love the polish, but credit where credit is due: „Poland is the largest beneficiary of EU funds 2014-2020, with one in four euro going to Poland“ https://www.gov.pl/web/funds-regional-policy/poland-at-the-f... Update: The comments below this are strange. I ment: „Poland gets money, Poland transforms it into more money”. Is Poland more efficient in it than other countries? I do not know. Would Poland have generated…

Think of it as an investment. The rest of the EU also benefits from their hard work, and economic prosperity. Other countries in the EU have also enjoyed economic growth and support over the years. I'm old enough to remember internal borders with passport checks in Europe, before the wall fell and Poland was still on the other side of that. Nice to see them moving on from that. Thanks to the EU free movement of peopl…

> Think of it as an investment. The rest of the EU also benefits from their hard work, and economic prosperity. Other countries in the EU have also enjoyed economic growth and support over the years.

This is something I tell people I am generally politically/socially align with (liberals/progressives) when they start talking about “handouts for red states.” California and other areas were not developed on their own, they required years of sustained federal investment and interest in the area.

It obviously goes without saying that conservatives in the US need to stop demonizing taxes so much for the same reason/they need to recognize that as the some of the largest beneficiaries of federal tax dollars they are cutting their nose to spite their face (I believe Kentucky is still the most subsidized state in the US).

All of us should want our states cooperation with the federal government so we can all rise together, and we need to view investing in our neighbors as a collective good.

Re: Poland is now among the 20 largest economies

#202

Post by lo_zamoyski »

wowoc wrote: post #106
-mlv wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're also the 3rd smallest net recipient of EU funds per capita: https://i.imgur.com/VlRkDMy.png

Exactly. Which proves that people who keep saying that Poland's growth is only due to EU's money should finally stop. Another argument: Poland's GDP had already been growing at a similar pace before it joined the EU (but after it got rid of communism).

Indeed. The self-congratulatory narrative around "EU funds" is obnoxious and ignorant. As you say, Poland's economic growth was similar before it had joined the EU. (Many economists then thought Poland's accession in 2004 was premature and should have been postponed.) Causes were cultural (there is a strong, traditional entrepreneurial streak in Polish culture) and related to the economic reforms undertaken during the transition from the centrally-planned economy of the socialist period. People need to remember that Poles did not choose the communist regime after the War. It was thuggishly and violently imposed onto Poland by the occupying Soviets. Poles merely endured a provisional acceptance of the regime, because they had no choice.

Furthermore, as the GP hints, EU funds earmarked for Poland don't necessarily remain in Poland as investment. Much of that money circulates back into the pockets of contributing countries. You have to look at the entire paper trail to understand where money is actually ending up.

Also worth noting: Poland didn't receive a dime of reparations after the War. Germany (and with later contribution by the Soviets) had unleashed such mind-boggling destruction on Polish cities, towns, cultural inheritance, industry, etc. that only the so-called Swedish Deluge matches or exceeds this devastation.

The EU presents certain clear economic benefits for member countries. Nobody disputes that. But the patronizing and paternalistic narrative of some countries - reminiscent of their goofy rationalizations for their occupation of that region during the 19th century - need to go away.

Re: Poland is now among the 20 largest economies

#203

Post by LeonidasXIV »

yeahforsureman wrote: post #170
niemandhier wrote: post #76

I love the polish, but credit where credit is due: „Poland is the largest beneficiary of EU funds 2014-2020, with one in four euro going to Poland“ https://www.gov.pl/web/funds-regional-policy/poland-at-the-f... Update: The comments below this are strange. I ment: „Poland gets money, Poland transforms it into more money”. Is Poland more efficient in it than other countries? I do not know. Would Poland have generated…

Not surprised to see "German" quotation marks in this petty complaint...

Polish people have such a fear of Germans, thinking Germans are constantly scheming to screw Poland over. Whereas most Germans barely know Poland even exists.

As someone who has lived in both countries its such a hilarious anxiety.

Re: Poland is now among the 20 largest economies

#204

Post by detritus »

wqaatwt wrote: post #173
MaxPock wrote: post #146

They've done well for themselves for sure . 20 years ago, Poland was sending seasonal workers to the UK to pick tomatoes. Brexit largely won because of anti Eastern Europe immigration

> Eastern Europe immigration It’s hard to believe those type of people actually wanted to replace it with non European immigration, though (which is what happened). Of course cause and effect is a complex concept to wrap ones head around..

It's hard to believe, and I repeatedly said as much to people who thought as much prior to the vote who 'pfffd' me in response, and yet here we are.

The right to vote on fundamental societal issues should come with some sort of mental means testing. I'm only half-kidding. I think.

Re: Poland is now among the 20 largest economies

#205

Post by lo_zamoyski »

mazurnification wrote: post #142
wowoc wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. Which proves that people who keep saying that Poland's growth is only due to EU's money should finally stop. Another argument: Poland's GDP had already been growing at a similar pace before it joined the EU (but after it got rid of communism).

Yes - main benefit of EU is regulatory stabilization and open market. Ironically also this was working also before joining EU (most of the adjustment happening as requirement to join EU and implemented before joining).

Much of the stabilization was due to the strong domestic market. Recall that Poland was the only country to avoid the 2008/2009 recession. It is tight global integration that causes recessions to spread.

Re: Poland is now among the 20 largest economies

#206

Post by HarHarVeryFunny »

DarkNova6 wrote: post #157

Investment, infrastructure, education. Same as China. Same as every other growing country. What the US and most other western countries do are: Let infrastructure rot, defund education, reroute money to large corporations. This is how you end up with failed state.

I would say that outsourcing and moving manufacturing to other countries is what has killed the US economy - now in a death spiral with interest payments on the debt starting to dominate government spending.

Re: Poland is now among the 20 largest economies

#208

Post by steve_adams_86 »

Years ago I bought some really nice brushless motors and was surprised to see they were made in Poland. I had no idea they were manufacturers of things like that.

Later I bought even nicer motors, meant to provide exceptional control and feedback for tactile/haptic behaviours, and they were from Poland too.

Then I got to work on a robotic arm which contained a bunch of components from Poland. At this point it was clear to me that it wasn’t coincidence.

Finally, I built a drone with my kids and again, the motors are Polish. And they’re excellent.

They went from being a place I would only expect to encounter cultural food items from to a place that entered a high tech supply chain which seems to produce high enough quality components that I see them without seeking them out.

As a Canadian it made me very envious. We should be able to do this. I’ve seen a handful of Canadian motors in my life, and they were all blower motors a long time ago. Our ability to build cutting edge technology seems to be so limited as to be virtually irrelevant in most cases.

Re: Poland is now among the 20 largest economies

#209

Post by Squarex »

victorbjorklund wrote: post #191
Squarex wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The taxation is not though. It may be better working from Warsaw or Prague due to tax rules. In Czechia it's a sort of fake, but tolerated consultancy and self employment and I have heard there is a similiar status in Poland.

Yea. In Poland everyone is a contractor even if they are not in reality. This year Poland had started to indicate they will crack down on it though so a lot of companies are now turning their contractors into employees instead.

Wow, that sucks. Here in Czechia the politicians talk about cracking it down all the time, but in reality it is now more common than ever with no signs of stopping. Only higher execs at banks or in other regulated industries needs to have a normal employment contract.

Re: Poland is now among the 20 largest economies

#210

Post by sdwr »

gmerc wrote: post #181
shevy-java wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The question is not whether it is an investment or whether it is not. The question is whether growth is objective and fair or whether it is not. For comparison of wealth in Poland, ALL net-subsidies would have to be deducted, because this is essentially wealth taken from other countries, and distributed to poorer areas in the EU. I am not disputing that this leads to more growth; I am disputing the "country xyz is no…

Economic zones are NOT zero sum.

And the EU wants to insulate itself from Russia with friendly, ideologically-compatible countries. Can't put a price tag on safety
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