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Windows 8 — Disappointing Usability for Both Novice and Power Users

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Re: Windows 8 — Disappointing Usability for Both Novice and Power Users

#191

Post by robomartin »

kabdib wrote: post #105
robomartin wrote: post #60

I have yet to take the leap in terms of using it day-to-day. I just don't have the time to play. I had my kid install it in a small netbook we were not using just to see what it felt like. Neither one of us is interested in using it very far past boot. It's one of those "Right. Brilliant!" moments and then the notebook is closed shut and turned off. Professionally my concern has to do with wasting time and not being…

The core OS underneath the glitzy pixels is a fine OS. Really, more than fine -- it's a /great/ OS, fantastic at asynchronicity and driver support. It has warts, but on the whole it was well thought out. (I've been working with OSes for 30+ years, starting with TOPS-10 and Unix in the late 70s. I have a little pedigree here). The stuff they put on top, not so much. I will probably wait years until I install anything…

I don't dispute what you are saying about the core OS at all. The trouble is that, as far as I can tell, nobody is doing anything with it. In sharp contrast to that you can do tons on unix/linux without a GUI and there are tons of tools out there that you can use from command line.

I guess we agree on the greater point which is that the MS Windows product looks like it has been savagely distorted into something that people like us want to stay as far away from as possible. The fact that these discussions are not about exalting the qualities of W8 is evidence enough.

Re: Windows 8 — Disappointing Usability for Both Novice and Power Users

#192

Post by joelreymont »

robomartin wrote: post #60

I have yet to take the leap in terms of using it day-to-day. I just don't have the time to play. I had my kid install it in a small netbook we were not using just to see what it felt like. Neither one of us is interested in using it very far past boot. It's one of those "Right. Brilliant!" moments and then the notebook is closed shut and turned off. Professionally my concern has to do with wasting time and not being…

Offtopic: Can you please poke me via email or otherwise? I'd love to chat. Your profile on HN has no contact info. Thanks!

Re: Windows 8 — Disappointing Usability for Both Novice and Power Users

#193

Post by robomartin »

louhike wrote: post #112
robomartin wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In desktop mode (if it is named so) can you put shortcuts on the desktop just like on all prior windows versions?

This is my problem with all discussions with Windows 8. You made one of the top comments even you didn't really gave a try to W8 (I base myself on the comment I'm replying to). IMHO, the OS works quite well out of box. There isn't a lot of compatibility issues, and I find it more efficient to work with because of small improvements like the speed of the start-up, the new interface to copy files, etc.

If you read my comment you'll find out that we did install it on one machine and tried to run it. I am a working professional. I really don't have time to waste trying to get around someone deciding to completely change the interface on one of the tools I use to make a living.

Imagine if tomorrow morning you had a choice to drive two cars:

The first, is a newer version of the car you already own. Everything is cleaner, better, faster, more convenient. They even fixed a few little issues here and there.

The second is this new version of the car you own except that they've moved things all over the place. The steering wheel is in the opposite side. The switches are not labeled. The ignition switch is hidden behind a door and you have to figure out --on your own-- that you need to jump up and down on your seat for that door to open.

Which car will you choose to go to work?

Re: Windows 8 — Disappointing Usability for Both Novice and Power Users

#194

Post by saturdaysaint »

zainny wrote: post #11

Personally, I think "Metro/Modern UI" is a complete train wreck. While it initially received a great deal of praise from the tech press for being "unique" and "fresh", my suspicion is that a lot of the praise was incredibly shallow and based purely on aesthetic appearance and not usability. This suspicion has been confirmed repeatedly from my own experience using Windows 8 and watching others use it as well.

a lot of the praise was incredibly shallow and based purely on aesthetic appearance and not usability.

Not to mention that the press has an interest in having another horse in the race. If it weren't for Win 8, what else would these websites be writing about after their umpteenth "iPad Mini vs Nexus 7" article? Camera reviews?

Especially since several categories of devices are being subsumed by convergence devices (netbooks, music players, flip cams, etc.), I think they're eager for a story.

Re: Windows 8 — Disappointing Usability for Both Novice and Power Users

#195

Post by WayneDB »

eddieroger wrote: post #185
sbuk wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sorry, I don't follow.

I think I did. The argument here was "well, if Apple can assume that users are going to learn a list of shortcuts, why can't Microsoft." The answer is because the keyboard shortcuts on OS X are actually shortcuts, not required for using the operating system. The gestures Microsoft has incorporated in to Win8 are the only way of doing things, whereas I can do things a few different ways on OS X. Let's stick with closi…

OS X shortcuts are actually shortcuts, except when they're not...

How about Command-Tab? There's only one way to access that functionality. How do you capture a screen in OS X without the secret "shortcut" keys or the command-line? How about ejecting a secondary optical drive? Zooming in and out?

Re: Windows 8 — Disappointing Usability for Both Novice and Power Users

#196

Post by robmcm »

rogerbinns wrote: post #83
kyro wrote: post #30

This is anecdotal, but I walked into a Windows store not too long ago to try Windows 8 on a tablet, and I was blown away at how terribly unintuitive it was. There were absolutely zero visual cues to indicate where features were, how to move around the interface. None. Now I don't know if that's changed since then, but the experience left me with such a bad taste that I told myself I would never give it another 5 minu…

> ... how terribly unintuitive it was. I'm a little uncertain how future proof such a claim is. I used computers before mice became common. Back in those days mice actually came with tutorial programs showing you how to use a mouse! Nowadays we would consider it somewhat absurd and no mice are shipped with such programs. Even typing tutors used to be a very popular category of software. When I got my first smartphone…

> When I got my first smartphone it was not intuitive that such a thing as a long press existed

The average user should never need to long press on iOS. This is why you see so many videos of 90 year olds and babies using iPads, because almost nothing is hidden.

I fear that over time more and more will become that way in order to add functionality, but the level of basic stuff that is hidden on windows 8 is unforgivable.

Re: Windows 8 — Disappointing Usability for Both Novice and Power Users

#197

Post by Sumaso »

rlu wrote: post #119
Zirro wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"So, if you're a power user and want to stay away from all of that nonsense..." But the people in the usability study were no power users. They were the intended audience. Besides, I don't think the performance issues OP describes would be appreciated by non-power users either.

Perhaps I used "power user" incorrectly. Basically what I'm getting at is that it seemed to me, perhaps incorrectly, that the person running the show told the people in the usability study to focus more on the new stuff and avoid the old. Of course this isn't strictly true as the article mentions how people got confused with "double desktops" but given the rest of the article, it just seemed like people were forced t…

I agree with you 100%. The old desktop is not gone, it still serves the purpose that it always did.

Many of the arguments I find come from people forcing new users to only use the Metro style UI, which would obviously be confusing (much as my mother would have problems switch from a PC to a Mac).

I'm sure people will praise windows 9 for being so much better than windows 8, even though windows 8 took all the risk and windows 9 simply applied some polish.

Re: Windows 8 — Disappointing Usability for Both Novice and Power Users

#198

Post by AlexandrB »

WayneDB wrote: post #195
eddieroger wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think I did. The argument here was "well, if Apple can assume that users are going to learn a list of shortcuts, why can't Microsoft." The answer is because the keyboard shortcuts on OS X are actually shortcuts, not required for using the operating system. The gestures Microsoft has incorporated in to Win8 are the only way of doing things, whereas I can do things a few different ways on OS X. Let's stick with closi…

OS X shortcuts are actually shortcuts, except when they're not... How about Command-Tab? There's only one way to access that functionality. How do you capture a screen in OS X without the secret "shortcut" keys or the command-line? How about ejecting a secondary optical drive? Zooming in and out?

The Dock generally displays all running apps, you can just click on one. I agree about the screenshot one - but this is often a power-user use case.

There are a bunch of ways to eject a drive: 1. little eject button in Finder, 2. Right click on drive on desktop -> Eject, 3. Drag drive from desktop to Recycle Bin (this one is weird, but intuitive for long-time Mac users I guess). I admit I may be misinterpreting what you mean by "secondary" optical drive.

System-wide zoom is mega-situational. I'm sure it's useful for those with visual impairment, but I've never seen anyone use it nor have I had use for it myself. This is like complaining that high-contrast mode in Windows does not have an easy-to-access menu.

Re: Windows 8 — Disappointing Usability for Both Novice and Power Users

#200

Post by vibrunazo »

w1ntermute wrote: post #93
markmark wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unified search was removed from Android because Apple has a patent on it and successfully sued.

This is a common misconception. Google removed it for about a week, until they found and implemented a workaround. For all practical purposes, the universal search works exactly the same. I just tried it out on my Galaxy Nexus running Android 4.2.

Posting this from my Android tablet, it has no unified search for many months since it was updated after the lawsuit. Original Samsung galaxy tab 10.1 running the latest official Samsung 4.0 update.

So no, not a misconception. Many Android devices don't have it because of apple.

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