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The Disadvantages of an Elite Education (2008)

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Re: The Disadvantages of an Elite Education (2008)

#61

Post by lenerdenator »

WalterBright wrote: post #56
lenerdenator wrote: post #41

> You learn to think, at least in certain ways, and you make the contacts needed to launch yourself into a life rich in all of society’s most cherished rewards. To consider that while some opportunities are being created, others are being cancelled and that while some abilities are being developed, others are being crippled is, within this context, not only outrageous, but inconceivable. He's really overselling the "…

Um, my college education clearly rewired my brain. I learned how to study, and how to solve problems. > To a large degree, you can feign "intelligence" as defined by these tests given a large amount of resources That doesn't work for science & engineering.

> Um, my college education clearly rewired my brain. I learned how to study, and how to solve problems.

It does do that, but you can do that at a state school for a significant discount over "elite" schools. Arguably, they'll even do it better, because you're not insulated from how the world works outside of those institutions.

> That doesn't work for science & engineering.

Ooooooh yes it does.

Hell, it even works in medicine.

Re: The Disadvantages of an Elite Education (2008)

#62

Post by WalterBright »

lenerdenator wrote: post #61
WalterBright wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Um, my college education clearly rewired my brain. I learned how to study, and how to solve problems. > To a large degree, you can feign "intelligence" as defined by these tests given a large amount of resources That doesn't work for science & engineering.

> Um, my college education clearly rewired my brain. I learned how to study, and how to solve problems. It does do that, but you can do that at a state school for a significant discount over "elite" schools. Arguably, they'll even do it better, because you're not insulated from how the world works outside of those institutions. > That doesn't work for science & engineering. Ooooooh yes it does. Hell, it even works in…

You can get an excellent science and engineering class from some state schools, like UW. But, you have to be careful to select the right classes. For example, you'll want to avoid all the "weeder" class, and all classes with an "easy A" reputation.

Re: The Disadvantages of an Elite Education (2008)

#63

Post by prewett »

beardyw wrote: post #6
FrustratedMonky wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

how? It seems to be a popular subject lately. Dirty Jobs, leaving software jobs to become a trade. (Update: Electrician, Mechanic, Plumber, etc...) Lot of articles on this subject, and calls to bring back the old classes like home-econ, shop, etc...

If software isn't a trade what is it? Holy orders?

> Holy orders?

Haha, but, I'm going to say Holy Orders! Generally male, known for being single? [1] Spends of his time inside a building? Must master large quantities of esoteric knowledge? Not a path most people want to go? The role is to mediate the transcendent Potentiality to something usable by the common person? What he says is intelligible to those who know, but the field has a reputation for unintelligibility?

The tech priesthood, however, makes even no attempt at renunciation of mammon, makes no effort to subordinate its animal nature to its higher nature, and its atheism draws no one higher than their animal natures. Well, except for the Gnostic ones, who seek to free themselves from matter into a digitally spiritual body, and the AI ones who boast that they can create sentient life themselves. We, the tech priesthood, have been building a temple, but it's beginning to look like the blueprint might turn out to be the Tower of Babel instead--pridefully ascending to Heaven [2] itself--instead what we thought we were building.

[1] Priests can be women in some Anglican dioceses, and can be married if they are Anglicans or Orthodox. (Orthodox priests can only be married if they are already married before becoming a priest.)

[2] In the ancient world, "Heaven" was not so much a place (that was "the heavens") as the realm of the Forms / Being / potentiality / Unity, so the Tower of Babel was, symbolically, Man seeking forcibly to take the divine upon himself.

Re: The Disadvantages of an Elite Education (2008)

#64

Post by ge96 »

WalterBright wrote: post #46
ge96 wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is also that idea of surrounding yourself with "good people" or like minded, people you want to be. I was friendly to everyone and one guy he just drank all the time, reeked of alcohol, no prospects in life, no ambition. Am I supposed to force myself to be around this person just to be nice/equal terms. I want to be around ambitious people.

I like being around people who talk about interesting things other than sports. I remain baffled at how people find sports interesting.

I'm not a sports guy either, sucks since a lot of women are into it too, I'll see it on their dating profile like ooh man... I'm not gonna be at a stadium watching people run back and forward on a field.

Re: The Disadvantages of an Elite Education (2008)

#65

Post by dlcarrier »

__MatrixMan__ wrote: post #18

> My education taught me to believe that people who didn’t go to an Ivy League or equivalent school weren’t worth talking to, regardless of their class. I was given the unmistakable message that such people were beneath me. That's not an elite education, that's a bad education.

They went full XKCD 927 (https://xkcd.com/927/) and what started as an attempt to introduce students to the diversity of all cultures ended up forcing them into a new culture antithetical to all other cultures.

Re: The Disadvantages of an Elite Education (2008)

#66

Post by jcgrillo »

WalterBright wrote: post #51
jcgrillo wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you actually did talk to your plumber, or electrician, or mechanic, or anyone else you view as "lower" than you, you might have actually learned something. Interesting paradox, that.

I usually ask them if I could watch them work. They always say yes. Then I watch what tools they use and how they use them and ask about them. They're always happy to tell me. For example, I watched the cable guy install coax. I then bought the same tools he used, and later wired up the coax myself in the next house. I also watched tradesmen cut & sweat pipes, service my furnace, install molding, etc. All very intere…

IME they're often more than willing to share details about how broken and bad the software systems they use daily are. This is the kind of knowledge that can make you very successful as a technologist if you know how to look for it, but you'll never find it if you can't relate to people of differing backgrounds on a human level.

Re: The Disadvantages of an Elite Education (2008)

#67

Post by irishcoffee »

WalterBright wrote: post #46
ge96 wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is also that idea of surrounding yourself with "good people" or like minded, people you want to be. I was friendly to everyone and one guy he just drank all the time, reeked of alcohol, no prospects in life, no ambition. Am I supposed to force myself to be around this person just to be nice/equal terms. I want to be around ambitious people.

I like being around people who talk about interesting things other than sports. I remain baffled at how people find sports interesting.

I love sports, and until a few years severely disliked theater and had no idea why people liked it. Didn't make sense, boring, long, generally stupid.

Then I decided to get over myself and see what the fuss was about. Now I get it.

I imagine you could do that if you wanted to. Up to you.

Re: The Disadvantages of an Elite Education (2008)

#68

Post by _--__--__ »

trgn wrote: post #35

you dont need to have a conversation with your plumber. be polite, say something inane about the weather, listen to their advice on plumbing, that's it. no tradesperson is aching to have a conversation with the resident nuclear physicist or whatever. leave them alone to their work, pay promptly, thank them for their time. this is just neuroticism, and isn't really related to the ivys. it's a very common human dynamic…

We live in a time where skilled and honest tradespeople have significantly more demand for work than they can actually take on. Having anything resembling a friendly and trusting relationship with them gives you a huge advantage over the other people stuck on months long wait lists who give up and go with the local PE-maxxed companies (which will take shortcuts and screw you over).

Re: The Disadvantages of an Elite Education (2008)

#69

Post by WalterBright »

irishcoffee wrote: post #67
WalterBright wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like being around people who talk about interesting things other than sports. I remain baffled at how people find sports interesting.

I love sports, and until a few years severely disliked theater and had no idea why people liked it. Didn't make sense, boring, long, generally stupid. Then I decided to get over myself and see what the fuss was about. Now I get it. I imagine you could do that if you wanted to. Up to you.

I've tried to like sports, in order to fit in.

I just gave up on it.

Re: The Disadvantages of an Elite Education (2008)

#70

Post by irishcoffee »

WalterBright wrote: post #69
irishcoffee wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I love sports, and until a few years severely disliked theater and had no idea why people liked it. Didn't make sense, boring, long, generally stupid. Then I decided to get over myself and see what the fuss was about. Now I get it. I imagine you could do that if you wanted to. Up to you.

I've tried to like sports, in order to fit in. I just gave up on it.

You should try to understand sports for yourself. That’s your mistake.
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