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The Disadvantages of an Elite Education (2008)

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Re: The Disadvantages of an Elite Education (2008)

#41

Post by lenerdenator »

> You learn to think, at least in certain ways, and you make the contacts needed to launch yourself into a life rich in all of society’s most cherished rewards. To consider that while some opportunities are being created, others are being cancelled and that while some abilities are being developed, others are being crippled is, within this context, not only outrageous, but inconceivable.

He's really overselling the "learning how to think" aspect here.

People select these schools with the pure intent of getting into a social network that gives them more resources than they would otherwise have.

Let's look at three facts here:

1) Access to the limited slots for students at these institutions is controlled by how "intelligent" you seem to be as measured by their entrance exams

2) To a large degree, you can feign "intelligence" as defined by these tests given a large amount of resources

3) Under most conditions, humans who have social networks for accessing resources will keep those social networks active over time and even generations of humans

These three things combined mean that there's a good chance that any "elite" institution will eventually rot from those who use it to climb or maintain their social rank.

Sure, there are some great programs at these institutions, but that's starting to be overshadowed by the damage caused by the above.

Re: The Disadvantages of an Elite Education (2008)

#42

Post by ge96 »

TrackerFF wrote: post #36

Even though this is a now 18 year old article, you still see the same type of elitism in the various metropolitan areas, where these people gather to work in finance/consulting/tech/law. I've heard people be completely open about only wanting to mingle and network with "peers", where they'll immediately ditch people at networking events / parties / etc. if they're not up to the snuff. They'll ask what school you went…

There is also that idea of surrounding yourself with "good people" or like minded, people you want to be.

I was friendly to everyone and one guy he just drank all the time, reeked of alcohol, no prospects in life, no ambition. Am I supposed to force myself to be around this person just to be nice/equal terms. I want to be around ambitious people.

Re: The Disadvantages of an Elite Education (2008)

#43

Post by cheschire »

surgical_fire wrote: post #38
cheschire wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you want to be a manager you have to understand the jobs of people you manage. What? No you don’t. You have to know how to identify people you can trust, how to establish and grow that trust with them, and how to maintain that trust. If you have bidirectional trust, then you can successfully manage people who do things you don’t understand. Edit: read my reply to surgical_fire below

During my career the only managers I could trust were the managers who could have some understanding of the work I was meant to do. It was alright if they didn't knew as much as I did. They just needed to know enough that I could have a meaningful conversation about what was going on in the projects they were trying to manage.

Maybe I’m being too specific in my interpretation of GP’s use of the word “understanding”

I interpreted it to be an understanding derived from experience from having done the job, but now after your message I could see it meaning an understanding of what the output should be, not necessarily how that output was produced.

Re: The Disadvantages of an Elite Education (2008)

#44

Post by WalterBright »

> You learn to think, at least in certain ways

I remember getting a C on my economics exam. I asked an upperclassman to look at my answers, and what was wrong with them. He laughed, and said my mistake was not regurgitating the prof's leftist ideas. (At one point in class the prof stated that he believed in the equal distribution of all income.)

I never bothered taking any subjective liberal arts classes after that. After all, I was paying the tuition bill.

Re: The Disadvantages of an Elite Education (2008)

#45

Post by rootusrootus »

RobRivera wrote: post #29

Once upon a time I worked at a famous BB bank in an electronic trading shop. I had joined from a 10 year military career as technology specialist. I had a chummy colleague introduce me in the elevator to a peer in a different but related functional. Upon the introduction, I made eye contact, stated 'Hello it is great to meet you and I am excited to collaborate with you' and extended my hand for a handshake. He gave m…

> He gave me a look, scanned me down-and-up, and then looked forwarded at the elevator door.

I would have burst out laughing at the absurdity of that experience. And then I might have apologized, because man how awful it must feel to be inside the head of someone like that.

Re: The Disadvantages of an Elite Education (2008)

#46

Post by WalterBright »

ge96 wrote: post #42
TrackerFF wrote: post #36

Even though this is a now 18 year old article, you still see the same type of elitism in the various metropolitan areas, where these people gather to work in finance/consulting/tech/law. I've heard people be completely open about only wanting to mingle and network with "peers", where they'll immediately ditch people at networking events / parties / etc. if they're not up to the snuff. They'll ask what school you went…

There is also that idea of surrounding yourself with "good people" or like minded, people you want to be. I was friendly to everyone and one guy he just drank all the time, reeked of alcohol, no prospects in life, no ambition. Am I supposed to force myself to be around this person just to be nice/equal terms. I want to be around ambitious people.

I like being around people who talk about interesting things other than sports. I remain baffled at how people find sports interesting.

Re: The Disadvantages of an Elite Education (2008)

#47

Post by joe_mamba »

sometimes_all wrote: post #33
triceratops wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

100%. The conversation opener is right there - baseball. Doesn't matter whether you follow baseball or not. If you do, have a back-and-forth and talk about your respective teams. If you don't, ask questions; fans love talking about their team. Ironically the ability to make small talk with anyone is considered a sign of good breeding. So this person's education may have failed them?

"Did you see that ludicrous display last night?"

See, the thing about Arsenal is they always try to walk it in.

Re: The Disadvantages of an Elite Education (2008)

#48

Post by onraglanroad »

WalterBright wrote: post #44

> You learn to think, at least in certain ways I remember getting a C on my economics exam. I asked an upperclassman to look at my answers, and what was wrong with them. He laughed, and said my mistake was not regurgitating the prof's leftist ideas. (At one point in class the prof stated that he believed in the equal distribution of all income.) I never bothered taking any subjective liberal arts classes after that.…

Oh, that's what happened to you! I wondered where that came from.

Re: The Disadvantages of an Elite Education (2008)

#49

Post by joe_mamba »

joefourier wrote: post #20

> There he was, a short, beefy guy with a goatee and a Red Sox cap and a thick Boston accent, and I suddenly learned that I didn’t have the slightest idea what to say to someone like him. So alien was his experience to me, so unguessable his values, so mysterious his very language, that I couldn’t succeed in engaging him in a few minutes of small talk before he got down to work. I'm a self-taught software developer w…

>just being a nerdy intellectual who's bad at small talk and doesn't have any topics in common with a blue collar worker

I'm an autistic tech nerd and even I never run out of things to talk to with blue collar people. Blue collar people aren't aliens, they're like you and me, they also watch Netflix, browse the internet, go outside, travel, go shopping, have relationships, raise their kids, there's a lot we have in common to talk about: the economy, politics issues, tax issues, news, cars, power-tools, CoL issues, what their kids are doing, etc.

In fact, often, their lives were more interesting than mine, with a lot of travelling the world on random jobs, since they don't give a f about "a gap in the resume" or being labeled a "job hopper", they just do what they want.

So if you can't find absolutely anything in common with blue collar people to talk about, might be an issue on your end you might want to adress.

Re: The Disadvantages of an Elite Education (2008)

#50

Post by ngruhn »

RobRivera wrote: post #29

Once upon a time I worked at a famous BB bank in an electronic trading shop. I had joined from a 10 year military career as technology specialist. I had a chummy colleague introduce me in the elevator to a peer in a different but related functional. Upon the introduction, I made eye contact, stated 'Hello it is great to meet you and I am excited to collaborate with you' and extended my hand for a handshake. He gave m…

> He gave me a look, scanned me down-and-up, and then looked forwarded at the elevator door. That concluded the social interaction.

Jesus, I think you have to smoke a bit more than ivory to be that condescending.

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