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Singapore introduces caning for boys who bully others at school

theguardian.com

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Re: Singapore introduces caning for boys who bully others at school

#61

Post by rvnx »

oompydoompy74 wrote: post #11

I didn’t expect to open the comments and find people who were pro beating children on Hacker News. I find this abuse horrific and you should speak to a therapist if you think this is okay. Absolutely barbaric behavior.

Well, think of it like this: these teenagers take pleasure harming defenseless animals.

They like to torture them psychologically and physically, precisely because they are defenseless.

Well, these animals are just big animals: human.

It means: they find it fun so they actually enjoy harming humans.

This is precisely the reason for bullying.

Punishing these behaviors early, and you might actually stop this pleasure-loop and send a signal to all people around that it is a not a good idea. In addition, you may prevent escalation to worse crimes. Once you do a crime, then crime+1 is maybe ok. If crime+1 is maybe ok, then crime+2, etc.

Re: Singapore introduces caning for boys who bully others at school

#62

Post by elevation »

lava_pidgeon wrote: post #41
elevation wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Deterrent can be an effective form of rehab. A former coworker of mine walks funny because he had polio as a child, and his father worked for the railway union after WWII. He told me one day in high school, one of his friends came to school with bruises couldn’t hide, inflicted by his drunk father. Everyone in school knew, everyone in town knew, but no one did anything. My coworker informed his dad, about the egregio…

And today the drunk father would lose the responsibility for his child which is a better and non violent answer.

> father would lose the responsibility for his child

This HN discussion of systemic abuse in US Catholic orphanages last century also discusses vast, documented ongoing abuse in both religious and state run care/foster systems around the globe. Statistically, these systems cause more abuse than they prevent, and should only be a last resort.

[0]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17852129

Re: Singapore introduces caning for boys who bully others at school

#63

Post by [deleted] »

walletdrainer wrote: post #59
lava_pidgeon wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Germany you can force somebody to stay until police arrives but unnecessary violence is forbidden

And what’d be the point? The police will not be interested in the would-be phone thief, calling them would be of negative value to society.

[deleted]

Re: Singapore introduces caning for boys who bully others at school

#64

Post by cedws »

roryirvine wrote: post #51
cedws wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Assuming these sociological studies are robust (which they're likely not as sociological studies have poor reproducibility) am I also supposed to reject the evidence of my eyes and ears? Families have been destroyed by terrorism in the UK, by terrorists who have been given second and third chances. To link this back to the original topic: discipline of children is part of a wider topic of how as a society we discipli…

Corporal punishment was banned in the UK in 1998. In the 28 years since, there have been 175 terrorist-related deaths. Compare that with the 28 years before, when there were 3,262 terrorist-related deaths.

The point of my reply was not that caning equals less terrorism. It was that lenience kills. Your cherry picked numbers also don't really demonstrate anything, much of that 3,262 figure was due to the Troubles.

Re: Singapore introduces caning for boys who bully others at school

#65

Post by roryirvine »

rvnx wrote: post #60
roryirvine wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Corporal punishment was banned in the UK in 1998. In the 28 years since, there have been 175 terrorist-related deaths. Compare that with the 28 years before, when there were 3,262 terrorist-related deaths.

How many terrorists had to be killed upfront in their country to reach that result ?

None.

Violence was, at best, counterproductive for all parties involved. It often led to further tit-for-tat killings and, more generally, piled up more layers of grievance that hardened attitudes and formed a barrier to de-escalation.

The cycle was instead brought to an end by a decade of trust-building and painful negotiation. Violence didn't help, and wasn't part of the solution.

Re: Singapore introduces caning for boys who bully others at school

#66

Post by roryirvine »

cedws wrote: post #64
roryirvine wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Corporal punishment was banned in the UK in 1998. In the 28 years since, there have been 175 terrorist-related deaths. Compare that with the 28 years before, when there were 3,262 terrorist-related deaths.

The point of my reply was not that caning equals less terrorism. It was that lenience kills. Your cherry picked numbers also don't really demonstrate anything, much of that 3,262 figure was due to the Troubles.

Those are the numbers that relate to your chosen framing.

But even if you excluded the Troubles or anything even remotely related to them, you'd still end up more than three times as many deaths before as after.

Re: Singapore introduces caning for boys who bully others at school

#67

Post by Arodex »

davyAdewoyin wrote: post #31
oompydoompy74 wrote: post #11

I didn’t expect to open the comments and find people who were pro beating children on Hacker News. I find this abuse horrific and you should speak to a therapist if you think this is okay. Absolutely barbaric behavior.

I find this attitude completely western and out of touch with culture and actual experience of people living in a society that operate differently. In my own personal and shared experience; having grown up in a culture where corporal punishment is a given. You found out it can be administered in the most humane way possible. And as a matter of fact, a couple minute after the entire thing you are back to talking with…

>And as much as Africa seems to be a lawless place, schools are very orderly; bullying by peers is rare, students generally do not exhibit anti-social, rebellious or rude behaviors to teachers or parents.

And then, when they become adults...

Have you never wondered why those "perfectly fine" children become such corrupt adults?

Re: Singapore introduces caning for boys who bully others at school

#68

Post by Arodex »

rvnx wrote: post #6
lioeters wrote: post #4

Solution against bullies: a bigger bully.

Works really well, and doing nothing is exactly why western societies are fucked up. New generations do whatever they want and do not face any consequences. Have you seen how much of a shithole France became due to street criminality and teenagers attacking people ?

>Have you seen how much of a shithole France became due to street criminality and teenagers attacking people ?

Are you a time traveller from 1900?

https://libreo.ch/revues/sjsca/20232/sjsca-29-2023/sans-foi-...

Note that it was a time of widespread caning and death penalty...

Re: Singapore introduces caning for boys who bully others at school

#69

Post by oompydoompy74 »

rvnx wrote: post #61
oompydoompy74 wrote: post #11

I didn’t expect to open the comments and find people who were pro beating children on Hacker News. I find this abuse horrific and you should speak to a therapist if you think this is okay. Absolutely barbaric behavior.

Well, think of it like this: these teenagers take pleasure harming defenseless animals. They like to torture them psychologically and physically, precisely because they are defenseless. Well, these animals are just big animals: human. It means: they find it fun so they actually enjoy harming humans. This is precisely the reason for bullying. Punishing these behaviors early, and you might actually stop this pleasure-l…

Most bullies are responding to a poor home life where they are bullied and beaten.

Re: Singapore introduces caning for boys who bully others at school

#70

Post by rvnx »

Arodex wrote: post #68
rvnx wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Works really well, and doing nothing is exactly why western societies are fucked up. New generations do whatever they want and do not face any consequences. Have you seen how much of a shithole France became due to street criminality and teenagers attacking people ?

>Have you seen how much of a shithole France became due to street criminality and teenagers attacking people ? Are you a time traveller from 1900? https://libreo.ch/revues/sjsca/20232/sjsca-29-2023/sans-foi-... Note that it was a time of widespread caning and death penalty...

Not sure if I agree or disagree with you but that’s a really interesting article actually, so thanks for sharing!
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