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Mumbai girl arrested for Facebook post

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Re: Mumbai girl arrested for Facebook post

#71

Post by fingerprinter »

stfu wrote: post #31
zeru wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, would you disagree with that the world would be a better place without religion in this day and age?

It depends. I would say that religions give a lot of people a meaningful life by providing values, hope and guidance on what they should aspire to. But there are always those on the extreme fringes, who make the rest look bad.

There is nothing that religion provides that cannot be and is not already provided by secular society[1]. Religion is an antiquated notion that serves no purpose in modern society.

Re: Mumbai girl arrested for Facebook post

#72

Post by Volpe »

mseebach2 wrote: post #66
zeru wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, would you disagree with that the world would be a better place without religion in this day and age?

It's a meaningless question. How would a world without religion come about? By flipping a switch, and everybody becomes well educated, peace loving, hyper-rational atheists? In that case, probably yeah, it'd be better. On the other hand, if you start lopping the heads of anyone found to be taking guidance from any teaching that isn't solidly grounded in hard science, then, no, it certainly won't be better.

That's right because all religious people are poorly educated war loving and irrational.

Seriously... Do you forget what was responsible for spreading education so rapidly around the world (give you a hint, it wasn't atheists).

There are a number of religions that are founded in rationality, and large components of others that are pure rationality. Just because you don't believe in (a) G/god doesn't mean you aren't religious. Just because you believe in a G/god doesn't mean you are irrational.

Re: Mumbai girl arrested for Facebook post

#73

Post by realrocker »

I shared this story on my fb account and got a veiled threat in 30 minutes. This is what I posted: "21 old year girl arrested for opposing Mumbai bandh on her Facebook status! 2000 Shiv Sainiks vandalize her Uncle's clinic. Another girl was arrested for liking the status! This is horrible. I blame all the people on facebook and in real world who patronize such violent and undemocratic forces. So much for free speech! The youth of this country are pushed down from all directions every day. Are we supposed to just sit and take it? Today it was Shiv Sena who did this, a fringe party. A few days ago it was Congress cabinet minister's son. What happens if every Political Party starts doing this? How long are we going to sleep? I never say this : Share !!". Note that this person was a well educated guy from my convent school. The extremism in my country is appalling.

Re: Mumbai girl arrested for Facebook post

#74

Post by rrrazdan »

Volpe wrote: post #70
jasim wrote: post #51

Bal Thackeray or communal politics is not the issue here. It is the freedom of expression of individuals. The Chairman of Press Club of India had an article on The Hindu (a national daily) which painted Thackeray in a bad light ( http://www.thehindu.com/opinion/op-ed/why-i-cant-pay-tribute... ) - but the state won't act as recklessly against him as they have against these two. Recent events in the country that sets t…

As fun as it is to think everyone thinks like americans... Does India have and promote the ideal of "Freedom of Expression"? Or is this just the US peanut gallery giving their 2 cents on other peoples' culture?

Even if India doesn't have a it, the question really is, shouldn't India have it. "Freedom of Expression" is not an American/French/Western concept. Shouldn't it be a natural human right?

In any case, its a fundamental right, enshrined in the Indian Constitution. Its not really a part of the culture, even in highly educated circles. Part of that has to do with the Indian apathy towards Humanities and pursuit of pragmatism over ideology.

Re: Mumbai girl arrested for Facebook post

#75

Post by denzil_correa »

News emerging that the girls have been granted bail, an enquiry has been initiated. The local cops may also be in trouble for their action [0]. Good going!

[0] https://twitter.com/sreenivasanjain

   SreenivasanJain: Both girls initially sent to judicial custody, then granted bail.

   SreenivasanJain: Maharashtra police HQ has ordered enquiry into girls' arrest. Says will look into merits of charges.

   SreenivasanJain: IG Konkan will head inquiry. Prima facie police HQ says no basis for arresting the girls. Say local cops jumped the gun.

Re: Mumbai girl arrested for Facebook post

#76

Post by bhntr3 »

Volpe wrote: post #70
jasim wrote: post #51

Bal Thackeray or communal politics is not the issue here. It is the freedom of expression of individuals. The Chairman of Press Club of India had an article on The Hindu (a national daily) which painted Thackeray in a bad light ( http://www.thehindu.com/opinion/op-ed/why-i-cant-pay-tribute... ) - but the state won't act as recklessly against him as they have against these two. Recent events in the country that sets t…

As fun as it is to think everyone thinks like americans... Does India have and promote the ideal of "Freedom of Expression"? Or is this just the US peanut gallery giving their 2 cents on other peoples' culture?

When I was in India, I found it interesting that the Indian concept of Freedom of Religion (which they've had off and on for much much longer than the US) is actually equality of religion in the eyes of the state rather than separation of church and state. So, different religions have different laws that apply to them. That's a very alien concept to Americans.

Even Britain doesn't have a guarantee of freedom of speech like the US, particularly when it comes to hate speech.

The American lens is a foggy one, even excluding the fact that the rights we guarantee our citizens aren't necessarily the rights we grant citizens of other nations. It's a good thing to keep in mind.

But yes, India DOES promote the idea of freedom of expression and it's been a fundamental part of its culture for much longer than the United States has existed. Nobel prize winning economist Amartya Sen has a great book on the history of dissent in Indian history and how it's a cornerstone of India's culture and democracy: http://www.amazon.com/Argumentative-Indian-Writings-History-...

Re: Mumbai girl arrested for Facebook post

#77

Post by Volpe »

rrrazdan wrote: post #74
Volpe wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As fun as it is to think everyone thinks like americans... Does India have and promote the ideal of "Freedom of Expression"? Or is this just the US peanut gallery giving their 2 cents on other peoples' culture?

Even if India doesn't have a it, the question really is, shouldn't India have it. "Freedom of Expression" is not an American/French/Western concept. Shouldn't it be a natural human right? In any case, its a fundamental right, enshrined in the Indian Constitution. Its not really a part of the culture, even in highly educated circles. Part of that has to do with the Indian apathy towards Humanities and pursuit of pragm…

> "Freedom of Expression" is not an American/French/Western concept. Shouldn't it be a natural human right?

It is a distinctly "western" thought[1] (as is "Human Rights"[2]). I actually didn't know whether it had been imported into India, given india's rather "mixed" (east/west) history.

The concept of 'natural human rights' is also a western concept, so no, I don't think we should continue to talk like our (western) way of thinking is the 'right' way, and everyone else is 'wrong'.

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_speech#Origins

[2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights#Philosophy

Re: Mumbai girl arrested for Facebook post

#79

Post by shrikant »

Volpe wrote: post #70
jasim wrote: post #51

Bal Thackeray or communal politics is not the issue here. It is the freedom of expression of individuals. The Chairman of Press Club of India had an article on The Hindu (a national daily) which painted Thackeray in a bad light ( http://www.thehindu.com/opinion/op-ed/why-i-cant-pay-tribute... ) - but the state won't act as recklessly against him as they have against these two. Recent events in the country that sets t…

As fun as it is to think everyone thinks like americans... Does India have and promote the ideal of "Freedom of Expression"? Or is this just the US peanut gallery giving their 2 cents on other peoples' culture?

Yep, India [in theory] has a constitutional right to freedom of expression. They're part of a larger set of fundamental rights.[1]

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fundamental_Rights_in_India#Rig...

Re: Mumbai girl arrested for Facebook post

#80

Post by wildranter »

guard-of-terra wrote: post #64
wildranter wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems you value more the problems that religious extremists cause than the current blatant disregard to free speech. In that light you'd be better off moving to China. Going against religion won't do any good to protect free speech or any other human right. You'll only gather more enemies.

Aren't we talking about religion-influenced restriction to the freedom of expression here? Why does religion go against us, but we should not go against it? They take pride in hurting whatever I consider worthy.

What you fail to acknowledge is that by going against someone over any disagrement you're hurting not only civility, but you transform yourself into the very thing you're fighting against.
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