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Windows 8 — Disappointing Usability for Both Novice and Power Users

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Re: Windows 8 — Disappointing Usability for Both Novice and Power Users

#121

Post by contextfree »

icelancer wrote: post #108
rlu wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What bothers me about the OP though is that if you really dislike Metro so much on a desktop, you don't have to use it! I'll repeat that even though I think we all know this already: if you don't want to use Metro apps, you don't have to use Metro apps. It is really that simple. So, if you're a power user and want to stay away from all of that nonsense, then click on the "Desktop" tile and you're done. Sure, you have…

>What bothers me about the OP though is that if you really dislike Metro so much on a desktop, you don't have to use it! This is said over and over again, and everyone has to keep reminding them that it's not about what is currently happening, but the fact that Microsoft is GOING IN THIS DIRECTION. The "Desktop" is slated for execution - just because they have it now doesn't mean it's going to exist forever. It's obv…

Even if your prediction proves correct, it won't be the current version of the new environment that's meant to replace the desktop, but some future version, whose suitability you can't really evaluate not being in the future.

Re: Windows 8 — Disappointing Usability for Both Novice and Power Users

#122

Post by simonw »

rogerbinns wrote: post #83
kyro wrote: post #30

This is anecdotal, but I walked into a Windows store not too long ago to try Windows 8 on a tablet, and I was blown away at how terribly unintuitive it was. There were absolutely zero visual cues to indicate where features were, how to move around the interface. None. Now I don't know if that's changed since then, but the experience left me with such a bad taste that I told myself I would never give it another 5 minu…

> ... how terribly unintuitive it was. I'm a little uncertain how future proof such a claim is. I used computers before mice became common. Back in those days mice actually came with tutorial programs showing you how to use a mouse! Nowadays we would consider it somewhat absurd and no mice are shipped with such programs. Even typing tutors used to be a very popular category of software. When I got my first smartphone…

But mice are STILL horribly unintuitive. One of the reasons iPads have taken off so well amongst people who haven't previously been able to use computers (I have anecdotal experience with an older relative, but there are plenty of other stories out there) is that the relationship between the mouse and the pointer on the screen is pretty bizarre. Touch interfaces are better because direct manipulation is much easier to understand.

Double clicking is even worse (I have a relative who has been using computers for 20 years and still double-clicks on links on web pages). Thank goodness that's slowly being flushed out of modern interfaces.

Re: Windows 8 — Disappointing Usability for Both Novice and Power Users

#123

Post by simonw »

rlu wrote: post #87
potatolicious wrote: post #12

Have been using a Surface as well as a Win8 desktop for a couple of weeks now, and I have to say this is pretty accurate. When WinPhone first came out with the Metro UI I was a fan - there's a visual simplicity to it that's very appealing. After you use it for a while though the weaknesses become pretty glaring and hard to accept. It is often very hard to tell what UI elements are interactive and what are purely info…

What bothers me about the OP though is that if you really dislike Metro so much on a desktop, you don't have to use it! I'll repeat that even though I think we all know this already: if you don't want to use Metro apps, you don't have to use Metro apps. It is really that simple. So, if you're a power user and want to stay away from all of that nonsense, then click on the "Desktop" tile and you're done. Sure, you have…

"And then for a lot of the other complaints (e.g. hidden interface, icons that you don't think you can click) it is just a matter of time before people learn it. Then it will become a non-issue."

That's not how usability works.

Re: Windows 8 — Disappointing Usability for Both Novice and Power Users

#124

Post by contextfree »

louhike wrote: post #112
robomartin wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In desktop mode (if it is named so) can you put shortcuts on the desktop just like on all prior windows versions?

This is my problem with all discussions with Windows 8. You made one of the top comments even you didn't really gave a try to W8 (I base myself on the comment I'm replying to). IMHO, the OS works quite well out of box. There isn't a lot of compatibility issues, and I find it more efficient to work with because of small improvements like the speed of the start-up, the new interface to copy files, etc.

"out of box" once you've changed the default file associations to desktop apps, that is. (it does at least prompt you to do so the first time you open a file of a given type)

Re: Windows 8 — Disappointing Usability for Both Novice and Power Users

#125

Post by [deleted] »

corporalagumbo wrote: post #91
CountSessine wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems like it would be a massive, massive jump in usability from iOS Really? Utility, maybe - but usability ? I've used an Asus tablet with Windows 8 on it and usability is far worse than iOS, at least where discoverability is concerned. It's too easy to get trapped in the faux desktop mode, and none of the gestures are as intuitive as they are on iOS. The gestures aren't difficult to use or clumsy - it's just tha…

Again, noting that I haven't tried W8 in depth yet. Re: iOS vs W8 on tablets - here are the features I am interested in: 1) Multi-tasking: there are a lot of times on my iPad when I am say, watching a movie in Safari, and would like to chat to someone at the same time, but I can't, unless I change app, which would kill the running video. W8 promises to solve this. 2) App switching - on iOS you switch apps with a clun…

[deleted]

Re: Windows 8 — Disappointing Usability for Both Novice and Power Users

#126

Post by rlu »

suresk wrote: post #120
rlu wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really don't agree with this and there is no arguing that it is simply conjecture at this point. I don't think Microsoft thinks that Metro apps or the metro environment do or ever will offer the same level of extremely high productivity that desktop apps and the desktop environment provide. I think we will have a much better idea of Microsoft's POV on Metro if/when they release Office apps on it. Quite simply put,…

Then how do you explain the fact that the Windows App Store is metro-only? That seems to imply that either Microsoft wants to push metro-style apps in the long run, or they don't care about the app store on the desktop - I'd put my money on the former.

Well actually you can get desktop apps off of the app store. Sort of. It just redirects you to the website where you can download the software. But it is a listing nevertheless.

Re: Windows 8 — Disappointing Usability for Both Novice and Power Users

#127

Post by [deleted] »

rogerbinns wrote: post #83
kyro wrote: post #30

This is anecdotal, but I walked into a Windows store not too long ago to try Windows 8 on a tablet, and I was blown away at how terribly unintuitive it was. There were absolutely zero visual cues to indicate where features were, how to move around the interface. None. Now I don't know if that's changed since then, but the experience left me with such a bad taste that I told myself I would never give it another 5 minu…

> ... how terribly unintuitive it was. I'm a little uncertain how future proof such a claim is. I used computers before mice became common. Back in those days mice actually came with tutorial programs showing you how to use a mouse! Nowadays we would consider it somewhat absurd and no mice are shipped with such programs. Even typing tutors used to be a very popular category of software. When I got my first smartphone…

[deleted]

Re: Windows 8 — Disappointing Usability for Both Novice and Power Users

#128

Post by suresk »

rlu wrote: post #126
suresk wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then how do you explain the fact that the Windows App Store is metro-only? That seems to imply that either Microsoft wants to push metro-style apps in the long run, or they don't care about the app store on the desktop - I'd put my money on the former.

Well actually you can get desktop apps off of the app store. Sort of. It just redirects you to the website where you can download the software. But it is a listing nevertheless.

Yeah, but I'd argue that the major benefit of app stores are:

- Discoverability

- Easy payment processing/distribution

- Automatic updates

- Being able to easily re-download it later

- Consistent purchase, install, update experience

- Some confidence on the part of the end user that what they are downloading works on their system and isn't going to harm their computer

The simple listings for non-metro apps really only benefit from the first item, and they don't really change my argument.

Re: Windows 8 — Disappointing Usability for Both Novice and Power Users

#129

Post by chrisherring »

M4v3R wrote: post #110
chrisherring wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Users have learnt to open task manager, find the process and click "End Task". That's a whole lot more complicated. I think people forget that at some point everyone went through a learning curve to learn even the basics of how to operate a computer. Having a learning curve does not make something a failure.

I have yet to find one regular (i.e. not tech-savvy) Windows user who knows how to open and use task manager.

Therefore since that is the equivalent to the Windows 8 process of forcing a program to close the complexity of the action is really a non issue.

Re: Windows 8 — Disappointing Usability for Both Novice and Power Users

#130

Post by rlu »

suresk wrote: post #128
rlu wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well actually you can get desktop apps off of the app store. Sort of. It just redirects you to the website where you can download the software. But it is a listing nevertheless.

Yeah, but I'd argue that the major benefit of app stores are: - Discoverability - Easy payment processing/distribution - Automatic updates - Being able to easily re-download it later - Consistent purchase, install, update experience - Some confidence on the part of the end user that what they are downloading works on their system and isn't going to harm their computer The simple listings for non-metro apps really onl…

Yeah I agree. Though I don't think that them pushing the app store as being metro first is equal to them shunning the desktop. Perhaps that is simply something we'll agree to disagree on?

It's very important for them to have the metro environment flourish and for that they're going to need lots of metro apps and blah blah blah. Metro IS important. It just isn't replacing the desktop any time soon.

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