Funny how people are suddenly on Elsevier's side. It's clear to me that AI training is transformative fair use under existing law. Maybe this will be the case to prove it.
The enemy of my enemy, and all that.
Zuckerberg 'Personally Authorized and Encouraged' Meta's Copyright Infringement
341–350 of 484 posts
Re: Zuckerberg 'Personally Authorized and Encouraged' Meta's Copyright Infringement
#342Earlier quoted context omitted.
> It would be disingenuous framing because the argument against copyright stems from a belief that information should be free. Meta does not do things in this spirit. Don't they? They release the llama model weights, they do things like this: https://www.opencompute.org/wiki/Open_Rack/SpecsAndDesigns They also make significant contributions to Linux and are the originators of popular open source projects like zstd an…
They only released the weights because someone leaked them.
Someone leaked the llama 1 weights before they were released. That doesn't explain why they would release the subsequent versions except that they wanted to.
Re: Zuckerberg 'Personally Authorized and Encouraged' Meta's Copyright Infringement
#343Earlier quoted context omitted.
>It's clear to me that AI training is transformative fair use under existing law. I wouldn't even go that far. Its an entirely new product. Its like the guy who sold you the keyboard demanding royalties for the software you built. That the person who wrote the book couldn't predict a new use case for the book in training LLMs, is irrelevant. The book isn't in the LLM. Its not being sold with the LLM. Its one of billi…
If my book isn’t in your LLM, then prove it and don’t use my book to train your LLM.
>don’t use my book to train your LLM.
What makes you think you are entitled to tell people what they can and cant do with data they purchased (or otherwise acquired) from you. Extremely honest question. I just cant put myself in your shoes.
Like if I had written anything useful I would be overwhelmingly flattered that my content be considered so worthy for inclusion.
Your profile suggests that you are a philosopher. Did you get into philosophy hoping to exploit the publishing industry to the extent that you can squeeze every cent out of your thoughts, and deny their potential uses downstream?
Its actually crazy how bad things are, I am usually keen on capitalism and exclusivity, but the whole thing with LLMs, I see people pushing hard to tighten the grip of intellectual property. I see people making 50 cents a month on Kindle Unlimited suddenly shocked that someones LLM generated output might be ever so slightly influenced by weights ever so slightly influenced by their work, seemingly thinking they might get some big payday out of it.
Give me a tiny little wedge of understanding of your thought process. Your book is right now, doing a greater social good on your behalf than me running around and removing all the trash from my neighborhood, and the benefits of that social good are going to accrue long after you and I are gone. Your work is now going to live on, in a very tiny way, in these systems forever. I am honestly envious.
If anything, I would be trying to get bad writing removed from LLM training data. Things that I dont want to influence others. But as a potentially honest promoter of your work, you want it removed?
Whats the number? If not 1:1 exactly what you charge for the book, what do you think the proper compensation for slightly influencing training weights you should receive?
Re: Zuckerberg 'Personally Authorized and Encouraged' Meta's Copyright Infringement
#344Cant wait for absolutely no consequences. Consequences are for peasants like us.
Re: Zuckerberg 'Personally Authorized and Encouraged' Meta's Copyright Infringement
#345A lot of people would be very pleased if this leads to Zuckerberg getting even the statutory minimum damages ($750?) on each infringement. The previous infringement case with Anthropic said that while training an AI was transformative and not itself an infringement, pirating works for that purpose still was definitely infringement all by itself. The settlement was $1.5bn, so close to $3k for each of the 500k they pir…
What's frustrating is all those kids who got criminal charges for running MP3 sites back in the day [1], and this guy rips off every piece of media in existence and will walk away literally because he's too rich to be charged. [1] See, e.g. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oink%27s_Pink_Palace#Legal_pro...
I a just world he should end forever in jail for the things he has done
Re: Zuckerberg 'Personally Authorized and Encouraged' Meta's Copyright Infringement
#346Earlier quoted context omitted.
> If you write a book and I take it and embed its knowledge into my product that is so pervasive that no one needs to buy your book any more (and I don't even credit you so no one knows where that knowledge came from), to you really still have what was stolen? The trouble with this analogy is that it proves too much. Suppose you write a book, and so does someone else, but they have better marketing than you and then…
Why are you talking about this case that case nothing to do with the topic at hand? The comment you’re replying to gives a very clear and narrow analogy, and you’re talking about something else.
How is it something else? It's the same analogy. The problem with it is that the harm from the alleged theft doesn't require any use of the original material in order to happen, since that "harm" is competition rather than expropriation.
The attempt to distinguish them is through copying, but that's the part that isn't depriving anyone of anything.
Re: Zuckerberg 'Personally Authorized and Encouraged' Meta's Copyright Infringement
#347https://www.tomshardware.com/tech-industry/artificial-intell...
> "81.7TB"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Swartz
> "approximately 70 gigabytes"
Re: Zuckerberg 'Personally Authorized and Encouraged' Meta's Copyright Infringement
#348Based. If i read a book from a piracy site, i can still cite that book publicly. This should also apply to AI models. I am also opposed to copyright at all, but that’s another question
Re: Zuckerberg 'Personally Authorized and Encouraged' Meta's Copyright Infringement
#349Earlier quoted context omitted.
What's frustrating is all those kids who got criminal charges for running MP3 sites back in the day [1], and this guy rips off every piece of media in existence and will walk away literally because he's too rich to be charged. [1] See, e.g. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oink%27s_Pink_Palace#Legal_pro...
https://pluralistic.net/2025/04/23/zuckerstreisand/ Cory Doctorow wrote a nice summary of the Zuckerstreisand book by Sarah Wynn-Williams. "First, Facebook becomes too big to fail. Then, Facebook becomes too big to jail. Finally, Facebook becomes too big to care."
I liked Doctorow better before he cheered for stricter copyright enforcement.