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Computer Use is 45x more expensive than structured APIs

reflex.dev

191–200 of 295 posts

Re: Computer Use is 45x more expensive than structured APIs

#191

Great guidance hidden in here for making it expensive for agents to navigate your website. Move elements on screen as the mouse moves, force natural mouse movement to make the UI work, change the button labels in the JS to be randomly named every visit, force scrolling to the bottom of the screen to check for hidden extra tasks... Hang on, that sounds like common corporate SaaS apps.

You can have both! haha

We built isagent.dev for exactly this reason, serve human content to humans, serve agent optimized content to agents.

Re: Computer Use is 45x more expensive than structured APIs

#192
post #182
post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's really weird, I'm seeing across the board that people who never believed in them before are suddenly all into good software eng practices (starting with writing a spec) because of AI. It's kind of fascinating that we never were willing to do these things for humans but now that AI needs it ... we are all in. A bit depressing in the sense that I think mostly the reason we happy to do it for AI is that we perceive…

My friend at a faang was talking about the "massive overhauls to make everything ready for ai". I asked for an example. He said "basically just documenting the shit out of everything" I guess that just never occurred to anybody before.

Having the humans document the code seems backward (maybe that's not what they're doing, but "make everything ready for ai" sound manual). And hopefully there aren't that many scary surprises that humans need to manually document.

One of the best parts of LLMs is that you can use them to bootstrap your documentation, or scan for outdated things, etc, far more quickly than ever before.

Don't just throw a mountain at it and ask it to get it right, but use a targeted process to identify inconsistencies, duplicates, etc, and then resolve those.

And then you have better onboarding material for the next human OR llm...

Re: Computer Use is 45x more expensive than structured APIs

#193

We gave up on structured APIs 20+ years ago when JSON RPC largely replaced XML REST. You can do REST in many different formats, it mainly just needs to be structured data and self-discoverable. Had we not made that wrong turn, LLMs and humans would have a much easier time reasoning about APIs they don't directly control.

Yeah but why would we keep that around for 20 years with no good use case

Re: Computer Use is 45x more expensive than structured APIs

#194
post #167

I'm always skeptical of the whole "computer use" concept. It's like hiring someone and inviting him to your house and telling him to go ahead, feel free to sleep on the bed, use the toilet, eat whatever is in the fridge, watch the TV, and oh here are the combinations for the safe... and that someone you hire is a monkey.

I feel like I am taking crazy pills. Are we really having an AI fart around with a mouse and clicking on things to accomplish stuff because we're not capable of making one kind of software query and command another piece of software? It kind of boggles my mind.

You are because that requires you to expose that API for every single piece of software ever

Re: Computer Use is 45x more expensive than structured APIs

#197

In an agentic world, the OS needs to be completely rethought. For example, every single app functionality should be exposable via an API while remaining human friendly. I think OpenAI designing their own phone is the next logical step. I hope they succeed which should bring major competition to Apple and Android.

> In an agentic world, the OS needs to be completely rethought

Isn't that what Apple is doing with its Foundation Models Framework?[0] Developers can integrate Apples on device llm that includes things like tool calling. I don't write Apple specific apps so not sure what can actually be done with it, but it looks promising and something Apple already seems to think things are headed.

> I think OpenAI designing their own phone is the next logical step

ChatGPT is already integrated into Apple Intelligence for those that want to use that instead of Apples model -- I don't see OpenAI trying to change lanes into phone making when they can focus on doing what they know while collecting a large check from Apple

[0] https://developer.apple.com/documentation/foundationmodels

Re: Computer Use is 45x more expensive than structured APIs

#198

Hello from the distant past, when being able to easily consume a website via API was an exciting and fresh idea for humans, before robots could effectively use the computer https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HATEOAS

Does anyone remember the conference talk in the early days of React that was titled something like “best practices considered harmful,” or something? Or maybe that was a joke someone made about it. Anyway, the Semantic Web people have been right this whole time, and it’s very funny that we can now quantify the cost of building websites upside down and backwards for more than a decade.

Re: Computer Use is 45x more expensive than structured APIs

#200
I'm trying to use computer use and browser use (via playwright MCP) in my work. Computer use is a hit and miss (mostly miss), but playwright MCP often works very well. The downside is it takes a lot of time to complete even easy tasks.

For example, to automate processing emails, it needs to 1. go to Gmail 2. log in to Google if necessary (This often requires two step verification so it's hard to completely automating, but possible) 3. read the latest mail 4. check the content and choose the action - if needed, reply the email - if it mentions tasks, add them to the todo list - if it mentions schedules, add them to the calendar 5. repeat for all emails based on specified conditions. And each step requires dozens of DOM (a11y tree) analyzes and actions (fill username/password input, check keep logging in, click submit button, etc). Based on the model used, each step can take ~100s. So easy tasks can easily add up to tens of minutes or even hours.

For frequently used tasks, I write skills like /logging-in, /read-latest-emails, using playwright scripts and let the agent choose them And based on the email content, the agent chooses other tools like /write-reply, /add-todo, /add-event, etc, so that the model can only focus on the core tasks requiring thinking. It reduces the execution time drastically.

But it can buries important business logic in the playwright scripts, not the agent's instructions. For examples, simplified steps to add TODO items are like; 1. read the email 2. check if it's about todos, then decide to add them to Asana 3. extract and summarize the title, content, priority, due date, tags, etc. 3. access to Asana (log in if necessary) 4. check if there are similar tasks 5. if not, add the tasks This can take tens of minutes, and each step can have important business logic, like; - how to decide the priority and due date - how to choose tags based on the content - how to decide if two tasks are similar This information should be read and updated by not only developers, but managers and other teams. And if I write those steps in skills with playwright scripts, it improves the speed, but all those business logic are buried in the code, so not accessible by non-technical people. It's also error-prone because web sites often tweak the UI and scripts can stop working.

So it's very convenient if the agent processes these step once, then decides it's worth writing the playwright script so that the next time those mundate processs can be executed instantly.

With automatic skill generation, the agent decides by itself if there are workflows worth writing skills with playwright scripts, like /log-in, /extract-information, /check-similar-tasks, /add-tasks. Like Just-In-Time compiler, the skills are a byproduct of the agent instruction, all business logic are written in the agent's instruction, and doesn't need to be updated manually nor tracked in a version control system.

This can reduce a lot of execution time and API cost, and be applied other than browser automation, like computer use or any other agentic tasks if it's possible to write automation scripts for tasks not requiring thinking.

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