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Computer Use is 45x more expensive than structured APIs

reflex.dev

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Re: Computer Use is 45x more expensive than structured APIs

#61

In an agentic world, the OS needs to be completely rethought. For example, every single app functionality should be exposable via an API while remaining human friendly. I think OpenAI designing their own phone is the next logical step. I hope they succeed which should bring major competition to Apple and Android.

And when the agent fucks up badly (as we've seen over and over again) who will be held accountable? The user?

Re: Computer Use is 45x more expensive than structured APIs

#62
Totally agree. I’ve been building an AI visual tool recently and experimented with both approaches. The latency and c ost of generic "agentic" browser use are absolute dealbreakers for real-time consumer apps right now. Structured APIs (even just chained LLM calls with strict JSON schemas) are not only 40x cheaper, but more importantly, they are deterministic enough to actually build a stable product on top of. Computer use is an amazing demo, but structured APIs are what pay the server bills.

Re: Computer Use is 45x more expensive than structured APIs

#63

I saw Codex was screenshotting, then clicking around. I just stopped it and never used that again. Using CLI tools is much faster and token-efficient. I developed ten apps in the last two months. One reached 10,000+ monthly active users. I ask Codex to generate SVG line by line and backtrack edit, ask it to use Inkscape to generate icons, etc... I developed all this on $20 codex sub.

I think it's the third or forth time I see you bragging about HN how many apps you're able to develop with AI now. Care to link any of them, especially where we can see the actual code that you've produced here? Without being able to see actual results, I'm not sure what you want people to take away from your repeated comments.

Why even bother asking a guy with the statistical acumen to think he can make a reliable estimate of a monthly average from some span of time shorter than two months? He's probably just going to say it doesn't matter and unfortunately he's probably right. If you sound excited enough, you can convince other people and close deals, so who gives a shit if there's really a there there? We'll see how he's doing in another decade. Reminds me of my sister always trying to get into real estate and mortage brokerage speculation, glowing whenever there's a market spike about people pulling in 200 grand a month, yet 25 years later she's still broke, doesn't own her own house, and her daughter is constantly asking me for money instead of her.

Re: Computer Use is 45x more expensive than structured APIs

#64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's the third or forth time I see you bragging about HN how many apps you're able to develop with AI now. Care to link any of them, especially where we can see the actual code that you've produced here? Without being able to see actual results, I'm not sure what you want people to take away from your repeated comments.

I only write here because people are spreading doomerism here with AI and I am excited about future. Well I am competing with geoip provider like maxmind. I developed custom traceroute and ping service to geolocate IPs with very high accuracy beating products like digital element, maxmind, ipinfo These companies have huge teams. But my 3 people company already beat them. Code doesn't matter much, it's not an opensour…

> Code doesn't matter much, it's not an opensource project.

Heh, you're in for a rude awakening, sometime in the future :) But I won't spoil the surprise, you clearly have made up your mind about what to focus on.

> My free app is http://macrocodex.app which I've developed along with a fitness coach.

Crazy, this app you've run for ~1-2 months has 10K active users already, even though there is zero info about who runs it, zero reviews, and says "Download on the App Store" on the landing page even though you then ask people to use the web app, impressive.

I don't think anyone said using AI can't produce a ton of code really quickly, and no one is finding that difficult to manage either. But most of us software engineers are trying to build long-lasting codebases with AI too, then "less === better" typically, so it's not about being able to spit out features as fast as possible, but avoid the evergrowing codebase from collapsing on top of itself, and each prompt not getting slower and slower, but as fast as on a greenfield project.

Sounds like you've found the holy grail of being able to avoid that, kudos if so. Judging by you giving zero care to how the design and architecture actually is, I kind of find that hard to believe. But, if it works for you, it works for you, not up to me or others to dictate how you build stuff, hope you enjoy it, however you build stuff :)

Re: Computer Use is 45x more expensive than structured APIs

#66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of the most seductive (and destructive) forces in software is the desire to rewrite from scratch because rewrites never, ever, ever go as planned. With AI, we're now thinking it's a good idea to rewrite the entire platform from the ground-up. Wild.

except every single piece of progress that we have is the result of trying to do things a different way. so unless you really think we've reached the pinnacle of operating system design, there has to be some room for this?

There's a very big difference between building onto an existing system and rewriting from the ground up. I'm not opposed to making progress and trying things differently, but saying things like "we need to completely rethink the operating system" is like saying "we need to completely redesign New York City". The most effective progress is incremental, not throwing the old system away wholesale.

The modern javascript ecosystem is a perfect example of what happens when everyone tries to rebuild from scratch and it's a nightmare.

Re: Computer Use is 45x more expensive than structured APIs

#67
I have only found Computer Use useful for GUI app local debugging. Presumably it will also be useful for getting around protections for external apps that don't want AI to interact with them, or for interfacing with legacy apps or those built without AI in mind.

I don't think any new app should ever be specifically designed for AI to interact with them through computer use

Re: Computer Use is 45x more expensive than structured APIs

#68
post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is an AI posting on your social media better for you?

It's not, but token peddlers will say it is. It's good to interact with everything through buying tokens.

And how will a token peddler's social media company survive after the hype runs out?

Re: Computer Use is 45x more expensive than structured APIs

#69

In an agentic world, the OS needs to be completely rethought. For example, every single app functionality should be exposable via an API while remaining human friendly. I think OpenAI designing their own phone is the next logical step. I hope they succeed which should bring major competition to Apple and Android.

The future is "dark OSs" - OSes with no human users.

Launched to nuclear fanfare on August 29th.
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