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Removable batteries in smartphones will be mandatory in the EU starting in 2027

ecopv-eu.com

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Re: Removable batteries in smartphones will be mandatory in the EU starting in 2027

#531

Post by cbeach »

ezst wrote: post #494
cbeach wrote: post #448

Earlier quoted context omitted.

* Samsung Electronics * Apple * Xiaomi * Oppo (includes OnePlus) * Vivo * Huawei * Honor * Motorola Mobility * realme * Google * Sony * Nokia * Asus * Nothing * HTC * ZTE * Fairphone * LG Electronics But yeah, "no competition left," okay..

ok, now bring-up a photo and datasheet of the flagship model from each of those brands, and articulate how they effectively depart from one another on metrics such as ergonomics, operating system, and hardware specs such as CPU/GPU/modem. - The ergonomics story is: all those devices look and handle the same - operating system is: a duopoly between Android and iOS - chips: a triopoly between Qualcomm, Samsung and Appl…

The software, OS and chips are completely irrelevant to the discussion about the physical design of batteries.

As for ergonomic differences, I see sliding phones, folding phones, big phones, small phones, minimal phones, phones covered in buttons.

Re: Removable batteries in smartphones will be mandatory in the EU starting in 2027

#532

Post by capitainenemo »

wolvoleo wrote: post #484
capitainenemo wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, they have an XCover 7 now - with similar specs. Also, they committed to a rather long support cycle for the xcover6 (5 years I think?) - I have one and it is still going strong. I've replaced the battery twice - not because I desperately needed to, but... why not. They are cheap, and I use the older ones still as backup battery packs since they are fast to swap in.

Yeah they are really meant for businesses. Frontline workers, factory floors. This is what we use them for and they do stand up to the abuse. Of course people treat them very badly as it's not something they paid for. Really long support too. They're not good in terms of specs for the price but that is not what these phones are about.

Yeah, the specs were... decent... nothing standout. Really I was going over the list of things I had lost after the Galaxy Note got rid of all their features and decided the replaceable battery was the one I cared about the most. The ruggedness was just a nice plus.

Re: Removable batteries in smartphones will be mandatory in the EU starting in 2027

#533

Post by infecto »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #482
infecto wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What makes it not accurate? With the 15, apple was already making claims about 80% at 1000 cycles. Battery degradation has too many variables for you to make your claim and even in perfect situation, it’s not a linear degradation by cycle. My 17 is at 100 cycles with 100% health. Back to my original claim. Most manufacturers already meet the exception. Some of the low end garbage phones may not but it’s unclear how m…

> What makes it not accurate? You’ve concluded because you don’t have the data nobody has the data and thus the legislation “is a waste of money.” Your ask for data is warranted. Your premature conclusion is inaccurate, or at least unsustained.

That cuts both ways. Pointing out uncertainty doesn’t by itself invalidate the direction of the argument.

My point was about incentives and scope: the exemption looks broad enough that most major OEMs can comply without going to removable batteries, especially at the high end where cycle-life claims are already trending toward the threshold. If that holds, the regulation mostly adds compliance cost while only forcing changes on a narrower slice of lower-end devices.

If you think that’s wrong, the useful counter is data: what share of shipped units in the EU would actually fail the exemption and be forced into redesign? Without that, saying the conclusion is “unsustained” isn’t doing much more than asserting the opposite.

Re: Removable batteries in smartphones will be mandatory in the EU starting in 2027

#534

Post by alternatex »

vel0city wrote: post #392
jlokier wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I cleaned a Samsung A53 under the faucet about 2 years after purchase brand new, using only a little water. It failed soon after from water damage. I had to get it dried out and a new screen fitted, and some functions never worked properly since then. I expected better as the specs claim IP67 ("Submersible in up to 1 meter of fresh water for up to 30 minutes"), and I used only a little water.

I'd return it if a brand new device that advertised IP67 died almost immediately under a normal sink water flow. Clearly it wasn't built to spec and one can't trust the rest of their manufacturing. But I mean that's just similarly true of Samsung products. I avoid them like the plague. I haven't had a good Samsung device in almost 20 years, and used to be a Samsung fan

They said 2 years after purchase. So that's where the debate is. How long should we hold manufacturers accountable for in regards to waterproofing? 1 year, 2 years, forever?

Re: Removable batteries in smartphones will be mandatory in the EU starting in 2027

#535

Post by lightedman »

ben-schaaf wrote: post #523
anonymars wrote: post #518

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Radiation hardening would do that

That's not a radiation hardened chip, it's regular off-the-shelf consumer electronics. The "solar radiation" test they advertise is part of MIL-STD-810H. It tests whether the electronics survive regular sunlight on earth. The only ionizing radiation this phone is rated for is UV light. At least if it had registered memory there might be an argument that it has some radiation resistance, but no it's plain old LPDDR4x.…

"The only ionizing radiation this phone is rated for is UV light."

Yet it is currently working just fine recording video inside of our rad/AtOx chamber with multiple Strontium-60/Barium-137 sources surrounding it.

"LPDDR4x."

Wrong. LPDDR5 and it has its own error correction features (not as robust as ECC but it's still there.)

Re: Removable batteries in smartphones will be mandatory in the EU starting in 2027

#536

Post by IAmBroom »

Dylan16807 wrote: post #460
Aurornis wrote: post #338

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And all of the commenters complaining they would never buy this phone is great proof that the removable battery movement is DOA. These phones exist. Companies have been producing them intermittently. When they do, few people buy them and there are always complaints that it's too big, too ugly, not fast enough, or something else. The vocal minority demanding this feature but refusing to buy phones with the feature bel…

Well, I want a phone that's about one tier below flagship and has certain features. I don't think that's unreasonable. For comparison: The feature I look for the most is a microsd slot. The last time that option existed that was in the quality range I want, I bought it. For anyone buying a phone right now, samsung has dropped microsd support from multiple more tiers, google and apple have never offered it, motorola a…

What you think is reasonable is completely irrelevant. What the marketing, business development, and C-suite groups decide is the best course, will be done.

I can want three cupholders, not two, on my next car, and I want it to be a Toyota EV in purple. Not too much to ask - but Toyota has no reason to make it for me. Not even if 100 of us on Toyota superfan sites want it.

For the record, I want removable batteries and the ability to change my phone's OS. But if there's not sufficient market pressure, it ain't gonna happen - without legal force. And that won't happen if the businesses have too much lobbying power (USA), or it's specifically against government interests (3-letter orgs wanting backdoors).

Re: Removable batteries in smartphones will be mandatory in the EU starting in 2027

#537

Post by IAmBroom »

Filligree wrote: post #435
munk-a wrote: post #324

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you are vastly overvaluing how much consumers actually value phone thinness. The majority of consumers use phone cases (most modern phones have a camera popup specifically to be better compatible with a case to this end) so I think what customers value the most is lighter weight - not smaller form factor. A replaceable battery does come with a slight compromise to weight but stopping the endless chase of thin…

I would prefer a phone that was robust enough to not need a cover, because covers add a great deal of size and weight. In the absence of such phones, I compromise on adding a cover.

Such phones exist, for Android. Several companies* make highly rugged phones. You can drop a Blackview BV7000 down a concrete staircase, watch it drop into the ocean at the bottom, have lunch, come back, and retrieve your phone from 40" of water, likely completely undamaged.

It's an extreme example, and way too bulky for most people, but the point is: "rugged cellphones" absolutely exist.

Re: Removable batteries in smartphones will be mandatory in the EU starting in 2027

#538

Post by IAmBroom »

titzer wrote: post #275
manoDev wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lots of advantages, but one major downside: you can't pop the empty battery, put a new one and keep working. There's a reason professional devices (e.g. cameras) still have replaceable batteries.

I use a lot of rechargeable AAA and AA batteries. They have lower voltage than alkaline batteries (by design apparently), which is not normally an issue, but sometimes is a deal breaker. E.g. my thermostat did not like lower voltage AA batteries and shut down prematurely a number of times. There's challenges adopting standardized rechargeable batteries, e.g. trying to recharge alkaline batteries risks fire/explosion…

Probably not by design. Battery peak storage levels are set by chemistry, and not really subject to tweaking - which is why there are tons of 1.5 V battery types, but not a single 2.0 V battery out there.

Re: Removable batteries in smartphones will be mandatory in the EU starting in 2027

#539

Post by IAmBroom »

MagicMoonlight wrote: post #327
manoDev wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lots of advantages, but one major downside: you can't pop the empty battery, put a new one and keep working. There's a reason professional devices (e.g. cameras) still have replaceable batteries.

Nobody needs to do that with a mobile phone.

Indeed. They actually make devices that take pictures, but can't make phone calls or read Facebook. Pro photographers use them.

Re: Removable batteries in smartphones will be mandatory in the EU starting in 2027

#540

Post by IAmBroom »

bigbuppo wrote: post #277
Aurornis wrote: post #24

As others have mentioned this is for phones with batteries that can’t survive a reasonable number of cycles. That’s a reasonable exemption, in my opinion. I don’t want to pay the extra penalties of reduced structural rigidity and water tightness for a battery that I don’t need to replace for 3-4 years anyway. I do wish one manufacturer would make a flagship phone with replaceable battery so all of the uncompromising…

> I don’t want to pay the extra penalties of reduced structural rigidity and water tightness for a battery that I don’t need to replace for 3-4 years anyway. What are you doing to your phone that needs all that? Using it as a hammer? Temporary support while building a tunnel?

Dropping it by accident. I sometimes venture away from the carpeted floor of my computer.
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