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'Point of no return': New Orleans relocation must start now due to sea level

theguardian.com

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Re: 'Point of no return': New Orleans relocation must start now due to sea level

#91

Post by LargeWu »

bdangubic wrote: post #69
AnimalMuppet wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah. There's a market. If there are enough buyers for the market to function normally, then there are enough people trying to get in that one more house won't make much difference. I mean, yes, in your seller's disclosures you should tell the truth, including about the flood risk. If people want to take that, eyes wide open, I'm not sure what's unethical about selling to them.

Also why just flood risk? Is it unethical for me to sell my Condo which is in “up and coming area” which never upped and never came and has a very high crime rate (with/without disclaimer)? My friend lives in another area where schools are as bad as it gets, she is looking to move now, unethical to sell that too (with/without disclaimer)?

The difference is that schools, crime, etc., are all what they are right now. It's there, it's verifiable. Anybody buying in has access to the full information. They can walk around the neighborhood and see for themselves.

The flooding and inevitable destruction of the city is decades away. It's still abstract. Some people might even think it is preventable.

I don't think it's unethical to sell. People have their own motivations. Maybe a buyer just wants it for 5 years, who knows. Probably the risk will get baked into market price. What does need to happen though is the federal government needs to step up, because they're the only ones who can, and guarantee they will buy it for a certain percentage of appraised market value. I would imagine that percentage will decline over time until they declare the city a total loss, after which your property is declared worthless. If they do this now, they can make it possible for people to leave with some semblance of dignity and mitigate hardships.

Re: 'Point of no return': New Orleans relocation must start now due to sea level

#93

Post by iamnothere »

dragonwriter wrote: post #36
oscillonoscope wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no legal mechanism left that could correct course at this point. You would need to have a constitutional amendment to drastically reshape government and that's DOA. All that's left is snow decline and eventual dissolution

The absence of a legal mechanism does not imply the absence of a mechanism (or even the absence of a peaceful mechanism.) While there is a legal process for amending the Constitution which, as you note, is likely intractable in the status quo conditions, Constitutional change—whether peaceful (even if there is the implicit consequence of force if compromise is not reached) or not—historically and globally is often an…

A sufficient crisis could trigger an Article V convention, which already has a large amount of states pledged to join, but the changes coming out of such a convention probably aren’t going to be good for the public.

Re: 'Point of no return': New Orleans relocation must start now due to sea level

#94

Post by adi_kurian »

alex43578 wrote: post #71
habinero wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Move with what money? And go where? If they have property, sell to who, exactly? "Instant" lol. Gently, you talk like someone who's never even been broke, let alone been poor.

A greyhound to Atlanta is $75. It’s not nothing to someone on a minimum wage/fixed income, but would be attainable within two months by saving about a dollar a day. Keep in mind, that’s the “extreme global poverty” standard for countries like South Sudan. Sell to whomever - but again, what property do they have if they are so poor they can’t afford a $75 bus ticket with notice? It’s always a Schrödinger’s poor person…

You should go to St Roch or Treme and inspire the locals with your dynamism. You could even bring bootsraps!

Re: 'Point of no return': New Orleans relocation must start now due to sea level

#95

Post by tzs »

foobarian wrote: post #46
californical wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Generally I agree, and we’ve known this for a long time but people stay in denial. It’s the same thing in Miami. Unfortunately though, the solution isn’t that easy. For one, if you own property there, you’re basically either caught holding a bag with life changing amounts of money lost, or trying to pass it off to another sucker which just feels unethical. For two, families and communities make it hard for people. Ma…

Systemically, the problem is that there needs to be a last person, and yet people leaving expect market value for their homes which normally happens by selling to the next person. The last person can currently only get the money if a disaster strikes and insurance pays out. To do it ahead of schedule, insurance would have to pay out sooner, which means there would have to be some kind of government intervention to ma…

Maybe the state could make it so the last person is someone who has no plans to ever leave, such as an elderly retiree. It could work like this.

• The state identifies neighborhoods that will need to be abandoned in a few decades and puts them in a program to turn them into retirement communities. A person who owns a home in such an area can sell it normally if they want to anyone who will buy.

• If an elderly retired person is interested in a property in that area they have the option of instead of buying it themselves from the seller having the state buy the property, and they then pay the state. The state gets title to the property and the retiree gets the right to live in it until they die.

• If the retired person wants to leave before they die (or has to leave because they can no longer live on their own or the time has finally come that the property must be abandoned), they are offered free room and board for life at a state managed assisted living community.

• If they left for a reason other than that the property has to be abandoned the state opens it up to another retired elderly person on the same terms. The new person pays what a similar property in a place not under threat would sell for, and they are now set for housing for the rest of their life as long as they stay there or transfer to state managed assistant living.

• To further make these properties attractive to elderly retirees the residents should not have to pay property taxes and utility rates should be capped. Maybe also toss in a free shuttle service to minimize the need for cars so people don't have to leave just because they are no longer able to drive safely.

Re: 'Point of no return': New Orleans relocation must start now due to sea level

#96

Post by madrox »

stockresearcher wrote: post #59
madrox wrote: post #10

My roots are in Louisiana, and this makes me incredibly sad. It is such a unique place that has no like, and drives all tourism in the state. Where will tourists celebrate Mardi Gras after it's gone? Baton Rouge? Sadder, still, to know that nothing will be done. No one will be relocated. Just one day a weather event like a hurricane will happen to destroy the area and it will be labeled derelict with no funds to rebu…

> Where will tourists celebrate Mardi Gras after it's gone? Mardi Gras is celebrated all along the Gulf Coast, from New Orleans to Pensacola. Go to a parade in Alabama, for example, and every third or fourth person will be from New Orleans - looking to escape the tourist nightmare their city becomes. In other words, hopefully nowhere ;)

My point is that maybe tourism is a nightmare, but it drives a lot of the economy...something Louisiana can't take for granted.

Every king cake I've ever had was in Shreveport, but you and I both know tourists won't be flying there.

Re: 'Point of no return': New Orleans relocation must start now due to sea level

#98

Post by phainopepla2 »

acdha wrote: post #44
estearum wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is why the federal subsidies for flood insurance need to end

We should have a one-time buyout for flood zones: pay someone enough to buy a median home somewhere similar and turn the land into a nature preserve (let mangroves return to protect Florida coast, etc.). Put a cap on it so we’re not buying new mansions for a few rich people with beach houses but otherwise keep it simple so people aren’t impoverished into becoming a drain on society. I have no expectation that we’ll b…

I wonder if there are any good ballpark estimates out there for what this would cost

Re: 'Point of no return': New Orleans relocation must start now due to sea level

#100

Post by johnea »

I'm almost surprised to see these comments unflagged 8-/

What a disaster in progress in Louisiana.

> Since the 1930s, Louisiana has lost 2,000 sq miles of land to coastal erosion, equivalent to the size of Delaware,

Having been born and raised in the mid-atlantic, I empathize.

If the article is read, while replacing every instance of the word "could", with the words "will not", I think it also states a pretty factual assessment of what will happen...

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