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Stop big tech from making users behave in ways they don't want to

economist.com

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Re: Stop big tech from making users behave in ways they don't want to

#111

Post by prolly97 »

pembrook wrote: post #103
dd8601fn wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This reminds me of the TikTok ban that lasted all of twelve seconds. I’ve been using the internet for longer than I care to admit, and I’ve never seen anything like it. It was like 300 million junkies all lost their drug supplier at the same time.

> It was like 300 million junkies all lost their drug supplier at the same time. No, it was not. It was actually nothing like that. No babies were left to die because their parents were out searching for tiktok clips. I saw no people whoring themselves on the street just to see a few tiktok clips. I heard no stories of children stealing from their own family to get a few scrolls of tiktok. There was no people killing…

[dead]

Re: Stop big tech from making users behave in ways they don't want to

#112

Post by Dylan16807 »

joe_mamba wrote: post #74
LPisGood wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I haven’t looked at OpenClaw but I get the impression anyone could build it. It doesn’t do anything technically impressive, does it?

>anyone could build it Then why hasn't anyone else done it before? With hindsight, it's always easy to say anyone could have done it too, but there's more to product success than just coding and shipping an app out the door. The first iPhone was built using COTS(commercial off the shelf) parts that Nokia, Ericsson and Motorola also had access to, and SW tools they also had access to, yet Apple won and buried the othe…

Well your previous comment sure made it sound like you were talking about level of coding skill.

Re: Stop big tech from making users behave in ways they don't want to

#113

Post by pixl97 »

afavour wrote: post #69
securicat wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Give me a break. No one says “I can’t live without Instagram” literally. There are even studies that show that it makes their users depressed. From inside the company that _makes the product_. Now, would it be inconvenient to stop, sure, but people need better self control. Put that cookie down!

> No one says “I can’t live without Instagram” literally. That's a straw man argument. I never said they were. > There are even studies that show that it makes their users depressed. What percentage of the population do you think are in the habit of reading academic studies about the effects of the products they use? It all feels reminiscent of cigarette smoking. The damage was very well known yet people continued to…

I don't believe the above user is here to have a well thought out discussion, they just want to tell the world how much better they are than the social media addicts.

Re: Stop big tech from making users behave in ways they don't want to

#114

Post by bheadmaster »

nathan_compton wrote: post #100
bheadmaster wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We should, but we also shouldn't decide what other people consider proper use of their time

I don't think this is obvious at all. I think its a reasonable function of the state to pursue policies that improve the mental and physical health of its citizens, partly because the negative effects of an unhealthy population are not limited to the individuals who are unhealthy. Liberty is great. I wouldn't want to live anywhere where it wasn't one of the primary goals of a society, but there is no stone tablet fro…

When you say "a society" sets a goal, it always implies a ruling group of people imposing their view of the common good unto everyone.

How do you make sure that whoever makes that choice makes it in a way you yourself will agree with?

Re: Stop big tech from making users behave in ways they don't want to

#115

Post by ngriffiths »

thedougd wrote: post #91
InsideOutSanta wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I absolutely did not want to go to these websites and did it anyway. I ended up blocking them in my hosts file to get me to stop.

It's wild. I reinstalled Facebook to sell some things on Marketplace. Thirty minutes later I'm doom scrolling through shit I wouldn't have sought out. I uninstall the app after I no longer have items to sell.

Good point. You sort of have a purpose for opening it up, then you get distracted, or fired up or whatever, because the app just unloads tons of information at you.

I sort of claimed that everyone enjoys it when they use these apps, maybe it's better to say they are likely getting something out of it in that moment. This could be kind of a bad deal - people make bad deals, and repeat old ones all the time. Other times they delete the app once they realize it.

Re: Stop big tech from making users behave in ways they don't want to

#116

Post by sunandsurf »

IMO recommender algorithms and other dark patterns like infinite scroll should be turned off BY DEFAULT on these apps. That way those people who want a dose of brainrot still have the option to do so but most of them get a little help to turn away from screens (I never heard anybody say they want to spend more time on social media).

I've written more about this here: https://klemenvodopivec.substack.com/p/recommender-systems-n...

Re: Stop big tech from making users behave in ways they don't want to

#117

Post by xg15 »

Terr_ wrote: post #86
dd8601fn wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This reminds me of the TikTok ban that lasted all of twelve seconds. I’ve been using the internet for longer than I care to admit, and I’ve never seen anything like it. It was like 300 million junkies all lost their drug supplier at the same time.

> This reminds me of the TikTok ban that lasted all of twelve seconds. That timeline has way more to do with the corrupt politicians than consumer behavior. _______________ Both in the sense that the original semi-bipartisan law should've been ruled unconstitutional [0], and also in how the Republican party turned around and broke portions of that law for months until Trump could ensure the assets were handed to his…

I found it interesting that congress never took issue with any other social media platform, and was fine with TikTok once again as well after it was sold to an American owner.

So looks like politicians never had any problem with the addictiveness of social media, they only have a problem when it's used by foreign adversaries and not by domestic companies...

Re: Stop big tech from making users behave in ways they don't want to

#118

Post by ddtaylor »

jp57 wrote: post #52
JohnMakin wrote: post #37

There are still supposedly serious people who should know better than insist "dark patterns" are not real and a mechanism to attack tech companies. I don't know how anyone these days can honestly reach that conclusion. Some of these sites use similar strategies as the old tobacco companies used to, all of this stuff is known already to marketers.

But are they actually serious people? I had corporate astroturf accounts arguing with me on my otherwise-ignored blog as early as 2004. All this time later, I just assume that every serious corporation employs PR firms using sock-puppet accounts to shill in favor of whatever dark shit they're doing, acting like it all just really great and good for us.

We've seen this on HN before as well. Companies targeting blogs and reddit with LLM generated content that "subtly" name drop products or services, fake praise, and even meaningless "support" requests on discussion boards.

Re: Stop big tech from making users behave in ways they don't want to

#119

Post by nalekberov »

y0eswddl wrote: post #81
nalekberov wrote: post #13

The Irony is that in order to read this entry I had to pass a cookie wall, which gave me only ‘Accept all’ and ‘Manage’. Then I couldn’t read it, because I had no subscription.

the author has no control over that

She had, apparently.

Re: Stop big tech from making users behave in ways they don't want to

#120

Post by thebeardisred »

> Dopamine neurons respond not to rewards received but to the uncertainty of whether a reward will arrive: the more unpredictable the outcome, the stronger the signal.

This leads me to think about the idea of procrastination as a mechanism of gambling by the sub-conscious. A subversive way of "raising the stakes on the game" in an attempt to "make things a little bit more interesting."

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