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K3k: Kubernetes in Kubernetes

github.com

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Re: K3k: Kubernetes in Kubernetes

#41

Post by dboreham »

mystifyingpoi wrote: post #33
2ndorderthought wrote: post #31

Can someone explain what this even means? Explain it like I am a software engineer with 20 years experience who has not yet found a strong use case for running kubernetes outside of hand holding cloud provider options

This is extremely niche. 99.9% of Kubernetes deployments will never need such nesting. It could be useful for testing tooling (I guess maybe operators?) without recreating the "top-level" cluster all the time. Also it's a fun idea. Sandbox in a sandbox.

I've seen many bugs get to production for the lack of such testing.

Re: K3k: Kubernetes in Kubernetes

#42

Post by rjzzleep »

sofixa wrote: post #15
rjzzleep wrote: post #8

Do Rancher side products generally make it into a stable state such that you would want to run mission-critical systems on?

RKE (their Kubernetes deployment and management platform, mostly for various flavours of self managed environments) is pretty popular with the self-managed crowd that needs something to manage their on Orem Kubernetes clusters.

That's why I wrote Rancher side products.

Re: K3k: Kubernetes in Kubernetes

#43

Post by 2ndorderthought »

geoffbp wrote: post #32
2ndorderthought wrote: post #31

Can someone explain what this even means? Explain it like I am a software engineer with 20 years experience who has not yet found a strong use case for running kubernetes outside of hand holding cloud provider options

Send the link to AI and ask :)

I have found I learn more when I talk to people who are really interested in a topic.

Re: K3k: Kubernetes in Kubernetes

#44

Post by teleforce »

Why stop at K3k, should be named K3k3k in order to capture the truly recursive and nested nature of the container-in-container system?

Joking aside I think this can be a great tool in Kubernetes and container eco-system.

Unlike one of the sibling comments that claimed it's a very niche application, or 99.9% deployment will never ever use this nested feature, I beg to differ.

Apart for testing with container-in-container arrangement, it can be a killer application for realistic simulation of network elements as has been utilized in many network simulators including ComNetsEmu and others [1],[2],[3],[4].

[1] Chapter 13 - ComNetsEmu: a lightweight emulator:

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/chapter/edited-volume/...

[2] ViPMesh: A virtual prototyping framework for IEEE 802.11s wireless mesh networks:

https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/document/7763263

[3] NestedNet: A Container-based Prototyping Tool for Hierarchical Software Defined Networks:

https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/document/9244858

[4] Network Virtualization and Emulation using Docker, OpenvSwitch and Mininet-based Link Emulation:

https://scholarworks.umass.edu/masters_theses_2/985/

Re: K3k: Kubernetes in Kubernetes

#45

Post by ssousa666 »

My team runs several HarvesterHCI/RKE2 clusters, edge deployments of our validation, simulation and fleet management tools for autonomous vehicles. The Rancher ecosystem has really been a godsend for us.

Excited to experiment with k3k, but worried that I won't have the language to accurately describe the third layer of kubernetes in the stack. Host cluster -> Guest Host Cluster -> Guest Cluster? Host Cluster -> Guest Cluster -> Guest Guest Cluster?

Re: K3k: Kubernetes in Kubernetes

#47

Post by rootnod3 »

lateral_cloud wrote: post #36
randomtoast wrote: post #19

This type of approach carries a significantly higher operational risk compared to operating multiple Kubernetes clusters on separate VMs or physical hardware. If you eventually update the main Kubernetes cluster that manages the virtual clusters and something goes wrong, you could potentially bring down your entire fleet of Kubernetes clusters all at once.

I don't think this is intended for production

Then why would SuSE spend money on it?

Re: K3k: Kubernetes in Kubernetes

#48

Post by nickgerace »

enrichman wrote: post #20

Hi everyone! I’m one of the maintainers of K3k at SUSE. It’s really exciting to see this on the front page. The project actually started during a SUSE Hackweek by my colleague Hussein. It was initially envisioned as a "Kubernetes version of k3d," but it evolved into something more ambitious and eventually became a real product. We’ve always been big believers in the power of open source. For the current default "shar…

Great project! Always wondered if/when it would be done at Rancher. Really cool, can’t wait to try it.

Re: K3k: Kubernetes in Kubernetes

#49

Post by never_inline »

dboreham wrote: post #41
mystifyingpoi wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is extremely niche. 99.9% of Kubernetes deployments will never need such nesting. It could be useful for testing tooling (I guess maybe operators?) without recreating the "top-level" cluster all the time. Also it's a fun idea. Sandbox in a sandbox.

I've seen many bugs get to production for the lack of such testing.

Or you know, you can architect around testability from the beginning, where multiple branches / instances of same application can run in the same cluster - in different namespaces.
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