Anonymous takes down over 550 Israeli sites, wipes databases • Hacker News Board

Re: Anonymous takes down over 550 Israeli sites, wipes databases

#141

Post by anthonyb » Sat, Nov 17, 2012, 10:46 AM UTC

aes256 wrote: post #136

kamaal wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, that is the reason why I'm suggesting that the Palestinians must show restraint, despite the frustration. Pursue a total non violent path. Food, medicine and water is blockaded? sure. Go on a mass hunger strike. Let the world know about it, inform them about your suffering. I guess that has already started to some extent too. Forced into a apartheid set up on your land, forced to go through humiliating check poi…

> Food, medicine and water is blockaded? sure. Go on a mass hunger strike. Let the world know about it, inform them about your suffering. Food, medicine and water are not blockaded? Israel allows enormous amounts of aid to pass into the Gaza Strip on a daily basis.

Sure, they let some through - but not enough to support the people there on anything more than a borderline subsistence level.

http://www.ipsnews.net/2010/07/mideast-israel-chokes-gaza-de...

Re: Anonymous takes down over 550 Israeli sites, wipes databases

#142

Post by aes256 » Sat, Nov 17, 2012, 10:46 AM UTC

anthonyb wrote: post #139

eitland wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Still they are rather humane compared to their enemy who is actively targeting civilians. And have been doing that so for years. What is your solution to this conflict that doesn't include wiping the only national state for the Israeli people, created by UN, off the map? Hamas has been quite clear there will be no lasting peace until that has happened as far as I know. (Full disclosure: I don't read arabic so I'm hav…

> Still they are rather humane Er, what? Go and look up the history of Irgun and Lehi. Israel is just as bad as anyone else in the conflict. Back in the 30s and 40s they were blowing up buses and shooting civilians every day: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Irgun_attacks Israel and Egypt continue to blockade medicine and food into Palestine, and restrict how people can move (bear in mind that there's basically n…

> Er, what? Go and look up the history of Irgun and Lehi.

What do the actions of dissidents 70 years ago have to do with classifying current Israeli government policy as rather humane?

You could spend the rest of your life investigating past wrongs on both side of this conflict, and you aren't going to get anywhere.

> No aid blockades there...

There is no aid blockade in Gaza either?

Re: Anonymous takes down over 550 Israeli sites, wipes databases

#143

Post by anthonyb » Sat, Nov 17, 2012, 11:35 AM UTC

mikevm wrote: post #140

guelo wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Although you never hear about it in most Western media Gaza militants also claim their attacks are responses to IDF attacks. The current escalation started when IDF killed a mentally challenged man and than a kid in an incursion a week ago. You can read about the tit for tats that have been going on here http://electronicintifada.net/blogs/ali-abunimah/how-israel-... To always blame the Gaza side as the aggressors an…

Nice try, with your "unbiased" sources. How about you check the timeline here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Palestinian_rocket_atta... Basically your narrative is the one I see on a bunch of pro-Palestinian propaganda sites, and nowhere else. How about this article: http://edition.cnn.com/2012/11/08/world/meast/gaza-violence/... ? Frankly, I'm used to Palestinians making up damning narratives of events. Watch…

How about the IPS? http://www.ipsnews.net/2012/11/israeli-firepower-threatens-t...

Ooo! How about the BBC? Are they a pro-Palestinian propaganda site too? http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-20367005

The basic point, which you're overlooking, is that the Palestinian rockets are pretty crappy, and Israel has overwhelming military superiority - look at the casualty list from 2009: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_Gaza_War

Re: Anonymous takes down over 550 Israeli sites, wipes databases

#144

Post by anthonyb » Sat, Nov 17, 2012, 11:59 AM UTC

aes256 wrote: post #142

anthonyb wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Still they are rather humane Er, what? Go and look up the history of Irgun and Lehi. Israel is just as bad as anyone else in the conflict. Back in the 30s and 40s they were blowing up buses and shooting civilians every day: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Irgun_attacks Israel and Egypt continue to blockade medicine and food into Palestine, and restrict how people can move (bear in mind that there's basically n…

> Er, what? Go and look up the history of Irgun and Lehi. What do the actions of dissidents 70 years ago have to do with classifying current Israeli government policy as rather humane? You could spend the rest of your life investigating past wrongs on both side of this conflict, and you aren't going to get anywhere. > No aid blockades there... There is no aid blockade in Gaza either?

Because the attitude of Israel hasn't changed: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_David_Hotel_bombing#60th_a...

The UN and the BBC disagree with you on the blockade: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/5122404.stm

Re: Anonymous takes down over 550 Israeli sites, wipes databases

#145

Post by hkrr » Sat, Nov 17, 2012, 12:18 PM UTC

maratd wrote: post #84

hkrr wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Funny comparison. Let me try mine : If Canada was no country but a territory where people were denied the right to have a state to live in, and if they were launching rockets at the US, I think the US would colonize Toronto and declare the city part of the US. Wait no, I don't.

> where people were denied the right to have a state to live in You realize Hamas was voted in, right? 1. Elected government? Check. 2. Borders? Check. They have a state. Not being formally recognized in the UN is just that ... a formality.

And you realize that Israel does not recognize any Palestinian state, right ?

Re: Anonymous takes down over 550 Israeli sites, wipes databases

#146

Post by johncoltrane » Sat, Nov 17, 2012, 12:41 PM UTC

yonilevy wrote: post #121

pyre wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'll repeat the above question, what's your solution? Responses like this are not aimed to be constructive, but to put a stop to reasonable discussion. If I see that the current strategy is ineffective, I'm not allowed to say so until I have a fully-formed solution that is better? It's better to relentlessly pursue a course of action that is ineffective and has a significant cost in human lives, because 'we' can't…

I didn't mean to stop the discussion, I'm simply trying to understand your point of view (I might learn something). Do you think Israel should sit idly by while the 25K citizens of Sderot can hardly live their lives?

What about the people who "lived their lives" in Najd before being expelled to Gaza in order to install another town with a name in another language and a population from other countries on their own land?

I would be pissed. Very seriously pissed.

Do you think the people of Palestine should sit idly while some foreigners grab their lands and park them like animals in a reserve? Do you seriously think that what was done was right and justified and that the Palestinians don't have valid reasons for being pissed off against Israel?

How would you feel if what happened to Palestine happened to the country you live in?

Re: Anonymous takes down over 550 Israeli sites, wipes databases

#147

Post by guelo » Sat, Nov 17, 2012, 1:01 PM UTC

AutoCorrect wrote: post #124

jpxxx wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, this is pretty much the regular kind of conflict. Looks like apartheid, smells like ethnic cleansing, and ends up with plenty of bodies on both sides.

nope, not the regular kind of conflict at all: for a large portion of our history the greater power would obliterate all resistance in the hostile territory, then settle the area with their own population. The Israelis are showing remarkable restraint. The land was sparsely inhabited when the Israelis formed their own nation. They spent time, money, and effort making it a better place to live. The Palestinians should…

If it was so sparsely populated how did 1.6 million people end up squeezed on top of each other in a concentration camp?

Re: Anonymous takes down over 550 Israeli sites, wipes databases

#148

Post by aes256 » Sat, Nov 17, 2012, 2:10 PM UTC

anthonyb wrote: post #144

aes256 wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Er, what? Go and look up the history of Irgun and Lehi. What do the actions of dissidents 70 years ago have to do with classifying current Israeli government policy as rather humane? You could spend the rest of your life investigating past wrongs on both side of this conflict, and you aren't going to get anywhere. > No aid blockades there... There is no aid blockade in Gaza either?

Because the attitude of Israel hasn't changed: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_David_Hotel_bombing#60th_a... The UN and the BBC disagree with you on the blockade: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/5122404.stm

> Because the attitude of Israel hasn't changed

An utterly preposterous generalization.

> The UN and the BBC disagree with you on the blockade

No they don't. You referred to an 'aid blockade'. Legitimate aid flows freely into the Gaza Strip.

Re: Anonymous takes down over 550 Israeli sites, wipes databases

#149

Post by aes256 » Sat, Nov 17, 2012, 2:12 PM UTC

anthonyb wrote: post #141

aes256 wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Food, medicine and water is blockaded? sure. Go on a mass hunger strike. Let the world know about it, inform them about your suffering. Food, medicine and water are not blockaded? Israel allows enormous amounts of aid to pass into the Gaza Strip on a daily basis.

Sure, they let some through - but not enough to support the people there on anything more than a borderline subsistence level. http://www.ipsnews.net/2010/07/mideast-israel-chokes-gaza-de...

Is there a humanitarian crisis in the Gaza Strip? No.

Israel provides the residents of the Strip with food, water, electricity, medical supplies, etc. The residents respond with rockets aimed at Israeli civilians.

Re: Anonymous takes down over 550 Israeli sites, wipes databases

#150

Post by aes256 » Sat, Nov 17, 2012, 2:30 PM UTC

anthonyb wrote: post #143

mikevm wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nice try, with your "unbiased" sources. How about you check the timeline here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Palestinian_rocket_atta... Basically your narrative is the one I see on a bunch of pro-Palestinian propaganda sites, and nowhere else. How about this article: http://edition.cnn.com/2012/11/08/world/meast/gaza-violence/... ? Frankly, I'm used to Palestinians making up damning narratives of events. Watch…

How about the IPS? http://www.ipsnews.net/2012/11/israeli-firepower-threatens-t... Ooo! How about the BBC? Are they a pro-Palestinian propaganda site too? http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-20367005 The basic point, which you're overlooking, is that the Palestinian rockets are pretty crappy, and Israel has overwhelming military superiority - look at the casualty list from 2009: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C…

The IPS are predisposed to support the underdog in any conflict, and yes, the BBC are widely regarded as having a pro-Palestinian bias.

As for the Electronic Intifada, which you previously cited. I think you can work that one out for yourself.

CAMERA have a detailed and objective timeline of recent events: http://www.camera.org/index.asp?x_context=7&x_issue=52&#...

Problems with the EI narrative:

1) The "unarmed, mentally unfit man" is also seen in a photo posted to a Hamas forum holding an assault rifle and wearing an armored vest. He was buried wrapped in a Hamas flag;

2) According to the IDF, this man ignored calls for him to stop and warning shots from soldiers;

3) EI cite a Palestinian Centre for Human Rights (go figure) claim that the boy was fatally wounded by "as a result of the indiscriminate shooting". This is unverified. He was hit during a firefight between Israeli forces and Palestinian militants, while the IDF were disabling explosive devices (two days after two Israelis were seriously injured by a similar such device). The AP reported it was unclear who fired the shot(s) that fatally wounded the boy;

4) EI doesn't mention the explosive device that seriously injured two Israelis on 6th Nov. Nor do they mention the detonation of the explosive-filled tunnel that injured an Israeli soldier on 8th Nov.

It goes on and on...