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Flock cameras keep telling police a man who doesn't have a warrant has a warrant

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Re: Flock cameras keep telling police a man who doesn't have a warrant has a warrant

#51

Post by bigyabai »

efitz wrote: post #15
LocalH wrote: post #3

Flock should be shut down and their entire c-suite should be sent to prison for human rights violations Also, not just an isolated incident: https://youtu.be/8BImTddknfk We need strong laws preventing any AI process from being used for law enforcement at all . The mere presence of AI at any step in the process should result in complete exoneration.

Flock is doing something I find unethical, even immoral, but maybe not illegal. I want people who break the law to go to jail. I don’t care if they’re cops or c-suite execs. But what I really want is laws (preferably federal) that make it illegal to build systems that can be used for mass surveillance, and I want law enforcement to HAVE to get a warrant to receive data from surveillance companies, even if they offer…

> make it illegal to build systems that can be used for mass surveillance

Is such a law realistically enforceable? A lot of the surveillance systems used today are benign services like Push Notifications, SMS and online filesharing sites. A significantly motivated threat actor (like the NSA, Unit 8200, Salt Typhoon, etc.) would have no problem appropriating that data for themselves.

Something like an oversight committee might work better, but there would be a bipartisan effort to neuter them the moment they take action.

Re: Flock cameras keep telling police a man who doesn't have a warrant has a warrant

#52

Post by munk-a »

efitz wrote: post #15
LocalH wrote: post #3

Flock should be shut down and their entire c-suite should be sent to prison for human rights violations Also, not just an isolated incident: https://youtu.be/8BImTddknfk We need strong laws preventing any AI process from being used for law enforcement at all . The mere presence of AI at any step in the process should result in complete exoneration.

Flock is doing something I find unethical, even immoral, but maybe not illegal. I want people who break the law to go to jail. I don’t care if they’re cops or c-suite execs. But what I really want is laws (preferably federal) that make it illegal to build systems that can be used for mass surveillance, and I want law enforcement to HAVE to get a warrant to receive data from surveillance companies, even if they offer…

We live in a strange time politically where the consensus on ethics is incredibly detached from justice. There is a danger in giving in to mob rules when it comes to the legal system but at this point we've wandered too far in the other direction with clear corruption around Flynn, Ticketmaster and others.

I simply don't find the argument that something isn't illegal compelling anymore since our justice system is so deeply misaligned with society. We live in the era of grift.

Re: Flock cameras keep telling police a man who doesn't have a warrant has a warrant

#53

Post by SJMG »

LocalH wrote: post #19
pj_mukh wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No licensed engineer can say "Well Claude made this bridge for me, it's not my fault". If you're licensed by the state to carry a gun around, your standard should be higher than that, not lower. AI has nothing to do with this. Cops have been using facial recognition since the 2010's, computers and databases with glitchy connections even longer than that. AI is just the latest boogeyman hiding the actual issue.

Still, AI has no place in law enforcement. It's the hammer that is being used to put screws in. It enables injustice at a far larger scale than ever before. See: the TN woman who was extradited to NC, having never been there, for a crime that the AI "face recognition" flagged as her, and the cops did zero actual investigation, they just took the AI at its word and put her in jail for six months. I also remember a man…

Are you thinking of this woman who was jailed in Fargo?

https://www.cnn.com/2026/03/29/us/angela-lipps-ai-facial-rec...

Re: Flock cameras keep telling police a man who doesn't have a warrant has a warrant

#54

Post by scottlamb »

pj_mukh wrote: post #6

Paraphrasing the crux of the issue: "It's regular practice in Colorado to list license plates with both versions, the one with 'O's and the other with Zeros in the warrant list." Insane. Practice. As always, this story has have nothing to do with the cameras or AI, but "law enforcement has an insane lazy practice" doesn't make for a very good headline anymore.

> Paraphrasing the crux of the issue: "It's regular practice in Colorado to list license plates with both versions, the one with 'O's and the other with Zeros in the warrant list." Insane. Practice.

Agree.

> As always, this story has have nothing to do with the cameras or AI, but "law enforcement has an insane lazy practice" doesn't make for a very good headline anymore.

Flock allows them to execute their intent at scale. That's a regression, unless it leads to the realization their intent is harmful and stupid.

(Lots of other reasons Flock is bad too.)

Re: Flock cameras keep telling police a man who doesn't have a warrant has a warrant

#55

Post by LocalH »

jumpconc wrote: post #45
LocalH wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's just arrest everyone then - I'm sure they've committed a crime of some kind during their life. We're approximately halfway down the slippery slope, and I don't see any way out other than hard revolution, which is very touchy talk on the internet. Ultimately it's all modern capitalism's fault, else there would be much less incentive for these companies to fuel what is rapidly becoming the effective Fourth Reich

You can talk about revolution on the internet. You can't talk about revolution on websites owned by the current elite , such as this one.

Let me rephrase - you can't talk about it in any venue that's likely to get reach beyond people who are already rightfully paranoid about their rights

Re: Flock cameras keep telling police a man who doesn't have a warrant has a warrant

#56

Post by bloak »

AlexandrB wrote: post #31
pj_mukh wrote: post #6

Paraphrasing the crux of the issue: "It's regular practice in Colorado to list license plates with both versions, the one with 'O's and the other with Zeros in the warrant list." Insane. Practice. As always, this story has have nothing to do with the cameras or AI, but "law enforcement has an insane lazy practice" doesn't make for a very good headline anymore.

The insane practice was allowing "O" and "0" to be used in license plate numbers in the first place. Once you do that, you're stuck dealing with the fallout of trying to distinguish confusing glyphs at distance on a moving vehicle. Many places omit letters that can be confused like this for good reason - e.g. Ontario plates can't have the letters G, I, O, Q, and U.

In the font used for British number plates O and 0 are identical and 1 and I are identical. This link might work for an example:

https://www.dafont.com/uk-number-plate.font?text=OO01+III

Software that handles number plates needs to take account of this. Not all of it does but the glyphs being identical makes it quite clear where the responsibility lies.

Re: Flock cameras keep telling police a man who doesn't have a warrant has a warrant

#57

Post by chimpanzee »

mlmonkey wrote: post #47
jeremywho wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> this story has have nothing to do with the cameras or AI This story wouldn't exist without flock cameras constantly surveilling the public...cameras have EVERYTHING to do with this story.

This wouldn't be a story if the cops did not put the wrong license plate in the system. How is it Flock's fault? Flock is just doing what it is being asked to do! Let me put in simple terms: Flock flags license plates that are given to it. Someone, somewhere says, license plate "ABCD1234" has a warrant out. And guess what, if Flock sees that plate, it _will_ flag it each. and. every. time! Tomorrow, say an "Amber Ale…

> Flock is just doing what it is being asked to do!

Well then clearly they are not a problem.

Re: Flock cameras keep telling police a man who doesn't have a warrant has a warrant

#58

Post by mindslight »

mlmonkey wrote: post #47
jeremywho wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> this story has have nothing to do with the cameras or AI This story wouldn't exist without flock cameras constantly surveilling the public...cameras have EVERYTHING to do with this story.

This wouldn't be a story if the cops did not put the wrong license plate in the system. How is it Flock's fault? Flock is just doing what it is being asked to do! Let me put in simple terms: Flock flags license plates that are given to it. Someone, somewhere says, license plate "ABCD1234" has a warrant out. And guess what, if Flock sees that plate, it _will_ flag it each. and. every. time! Tomorrow, say an "Amber Ale…

Pigeonholing responsibility onto one party is what allows these mutually-dependent systems to point fingers at one another to escape blame. Rather, the responsibility here is shared. If you want to focus your call for reform on the police (for both making an overly-broad list, and also for harming innocent motorists without compensating them for the damage), then I agree that's more appropriate for this particular problem. But don't absolve Flock.

Re: Flock cameras keep telling police a man who doesn't have a warrant has a warrant

#59

Post by LocalH »

mlmonkey wrote: post #47
jeremywho wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> this story has have nothing to do with the cameras or AI This story wouldn't exist without flock cameras constantly surveilling the public...cameras have EVERYTHING to do with this story.

This wouldn't be a story if the cops did not put the wrong license plate in the system. How is it Flock's fault? Flock is just doing what it is being asked to do! Let me put in simple terms: Flock flags license plates that are given to it. Someone, somewhere says, license plate "ABCD1234" has a warrant out. And guess what, if Flock sees that plate, it _will_ flag it each. and. every. time! Tomorrow, say an "Amber Ale…

Once? Maybe. And then the cops do their jobs and determine that PINKLADY is not who they're actually looking for, and they go on their way.

Multiple times? Police laziness fueled by AI incompetence

The people getting caught up in this have been pulled over multiple times.

Re: Flock cameras keep telling police a man who doesn't have a warrant has a warrant

#60

Post by sathackr »

mlmonkey wrote: post #47
jeremywho wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> this story has have nothing to do with the cameras or AI This story wouldn't exist without flock cameras constantly surveilling the public...cameras have EVERYTHING to do with this story.

This wouldn't be a story if the cops did not put the wrong license plate in the system. How is it Flock's fault? Flock is just doing what it is being asked to do! Let me put in simple terms: Flock flags license plates that are given to it. Someone, somewhere says, license plate "ABCD1234" has a warrant out. And guess what, if Flock sees that plate, it _will_ flag it each. and. every. time! Tomorrow, say an "Amber Ale…

"They can't remove it without knowing who the warrant is for" is absolutely Flocks problem.

They're alerting on a license plate but yet somehow they can't turn off that license plate alert using just the license plate number? Fucking bullshit

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