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Germany Overtakes US in Ammunition Production Capacity

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Re: Germany Overtakes US in Ammunition Production Capacity

#121

Post by benterix »

gorgolo wrote: post #78
aa-jv wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Short time? No, the US has been losing its stance in the world since the illegal invasion of Iraq in 2003, murdering a million people in cold blood on the basis of outright lies. It has been downhill ever since then. The support for the Gaza genocide is just one in a long list of atrocities for which the American state is responsible, and for which the entire world is starting to hold America responsible. The rest of…

I’m not from the US and not trying to defend the US actions, but on Iraq and Gaza, much of Europe takes the same position and goes along with it (and even directly joined the wars and sent troops). I find the online opinion on Europe / US relations interesting. Online you’d think Europe and US are about to split. But in real life, Europe is more dependent on the US than ever. In terms of energy (Russian fossil fuels…

> I’m not from the US and not trying to defend the US actions, but on Iraq and Gaza, much of Europe takes the same position and goes along with it (and even directly joined the wars and sent troops).

What?!

I'm not talking about the recent events when Europe not only didn't joint Trump's war but openly refused the use of its military bases. Even in the past when the so-called "coalition of the willing" was formed, Europe had the biggest protests in its history. There were not hundreds of thousands but millions people on streets.

So your picture of uniformity was already false 20 years ago, and now it's just crystal clear.

Re: Germany Overtakes US in Ammunition Production Capacity

#122

Post by GJim »

laughing_man wrote: post #73
fabian2k wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

[flagged]

> or Iran obtained nuclear weapons

False dichotomy

American intelligence showed Iran was nowhere near building a nuclear weapon.

Frankly, a better question would be to ask why Mango Mussolini tore up the 2016 Iran Nuclear deal (JCPOA).... Hint: It might be something to do with it being made by his predecessor.

Re: Germany Overtakes US in Ammunition Production Capacity

#124

Post by apexalpha »

nolok wrote: post #41
ragebol wrote: post #2

It's still baffling to see the US lose so much face in so short a time. There is definitely truth that Europe has relied on US defense for too long, but what the US got in return is hard to put into words and economic terms. We bought your tech, culture, defense and so much other stuff. This rift won't close anytime soon

It's a classic case of falling for your own BS. The world's rules were written by them, for them, and their allies notably european countries were willing to go along for the ride for all the side benefit of said safety and stability, both pretended it was a gift out of niceness while it was actually massively profitable But then a portion of the US started believing the whole gift part, and now they're destroying th…

The PAX Americana established from '45 and expanded globally after the Soviet Union fell is so all-encompassing that people can't see beyond it anymore. They just can't see the forest as they've been between the trees all their lives.

We've truly fell for our own tricks as we call it "international rulebased order" which hides the fact that it's just a benevolent dictatorship under the American Federal government.

As we say in Dutch: trust arrives on foot and leaves on horseback. Perhaps now it leaves in a Boeing.

This will forever change the US' role in the world.

Re: Germany Overtakes US in Ammunition Production Capacity

#125

Post by spwa4 »

frm88 wrote: post #101
spwa4 wrote: post #20

The problem with this, historically is that the way Europe's geography works, a number of countries are just not going to fairly share in the burden of defending Europe, while other countries have the ability to tax foreign trade. Ireland is famous for this, and looking at a map, you can see why. Spain, Turkey and Denmark have historically taxed foreign trade. Additionally a number of countries have "unfair" advantag…

even Spain's current government Where do you get this from? Is this a remark that comes from antipathy to social democracy? Every speech by Sanchez that I have listened to over the last year has him promoting free trade, even the wiki says so: Sánchez has been a strong advocate for finalizing the long-negotiated EU–Mercosur Free Trade Agreement,[170] which aims to establish one of the world's largest free trade areas…

He is pushing really hard to renegotiate Gibraltar, and has even booked some success there (the fence is taken down). He's artifically pushing the Spanish economy in the region, and he's also sending in ships on a regular basis (no change from previous Spanish governments there) that UK has to chase away.

Why do you think that is? If you want to know: Spain's official story is they want it back because "it's inconveniently placed" (they imply they mean for the Spanish fishing industry).

Re: Germany Overtakes US in Ammunition Production Capacity

#126

Post by aa-jv »

benterix wrote: post #121
gorgolo wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m not from the US and not trying to defend the US actions, but on Iraq and Gaza, much of Europe takes the same position and goes along with it (and even directly joined the wars and sent troops). I find the online opinion on Europe / US relations interesting. Online you’d think Europe and US are about to split. But in real life, Europe is more dependent on the US than ever. In terms of energy (Russian fossil fuels…

> I’m not from the US and not trying to defend the US actions, but on Iraq and Gaza, much of Europe takes the same position and goes along with it (and even directly joined the wars and sent troops). What?! I'm not talking about the recent events when Europe not only didn't joint Trump's war but openly refused the use of its military bases. Even in the past when the so-called "coalition of the willing" was formed, Eu…

Indeed, we are discussing the propaganda wasteland of Western media, more than anything else.

American media are owned by the same people making profit from selling the bombs falling in the genocide - so, it won't freely and openly report European upset at America's war crimes so readily.

Re: Germany Overtakes US in Ammunition Production Capacity

#127

Post by garte »

laughing_man wrote: post #60
pfdietz wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US is teetering on the edge of a financial abyss. These are all just foreshocks.

If this is true, it's more true of the larger European countries.

Europe is a lot more diversified than the US (subtract the whole AI / internet tech sector and US treasure bonds and you get a lot less volume than Europe) and spends more in social security which is good for the economy as a whole.

The US has inflated numbers through soft power influence throughout the whole world but that makes its current course only more self-destructive including bond yields when they come crashing down.

Re: Germany Overtakes US in Ammunition Production Capacity

#128

Post by laughing_man »

SideburnsOfDoom wrote: post #108
laughing_man wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As I pointed out elsewhere, the "Iran nuclear deal" was very similar to the "North Korea nuclear deal" that prevented the North Koreans from building nuclear weapons.

I see your opinion there, and I do not place any value in it.

And I give that sentiment all the consideration it deserves.

Re: Germany Overtakes US in Ammunition Production Capacity

#129

Post by vrganj »

benterix wrote: post #115
pjc50 wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even before Trump, and the invasion of Ukraine, it was transparently obvious that the idea of minimum spending commitment to NATO was intended to prop up the US arms industry rather than actually achieve anything military. To a certain extent the US occupation of Germany was intended to prevent Germany rearming on its own.

> it was transparently obvious that the idea of minimum spending commitment to NATO was intended to prop up the US arms industry ...to Trump. European leaders took it literally: since the USA stopped being a reliable partner, Europe needs to depend on itself for protection. It makes zero sense to buy American weapons if you can produce/purchase them on the continent.

They knew what Trump meant, but this way they could agree at a surface level to keep him happy, while actively distancing themselves in reality.

Re: Germany Overtakes US in Ammunition Production Capacity

#130

Post by rich_sasha »

vr46 wrote: post #16
ragebol wrote: post #2

It's still baffling to see the US lose so much face in so short a time. There is definitely truth that Europe has relied on US defense for too long, but what the US got in return is hard to put into words and economic terms. We bought your tech, culture, defense and so much other stuff. This rift won't close anytime soon

They're laughing all the way to the bank, the US has locked Europe into so many long-term petrochem supply contracts courtesy of two energy crises, and the US have stated point-blank that the supplies (of LNG, in this case) are tied to the US-EU trade treaty plus whatever changes the US wants to make. Same protection racket plus a foot on the brake of the EU's push to renewables.

US sells a lot of other things to Europe that Europe doesn't have to buy. That includes tech. I'm not looking forward to the ensuing trade war but it's not a one way street by any means.
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