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Your phone is about to stop being yours

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Re: Your phone is about to stop being yours

#471

Post by lukeschlather »

criddell wrote: post #139
rcxdude wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The openness of Android also acts as a check of sorts on how restrictive the walled garden can get. If google were to clamp down on useful functionality in the play store, then you could always install apks yourself. But if the latter is no longer an option, then there's much more temptation to google for the former.

I get the feeling that clamping down on useful functionality is often an unfortunate side-effect of closing down paths that are being exploited by criminals to harm users. What should Google do when a change they are making to protect regular less-technical users breaks functionality needed by more advanced users?

Requiring every package in F-Droid to pay a developer licensing fee is not protecting anyone, in fact it will make people less safe. The whole model of F-Droid relies on free software, needing to pay a license fee to Google banishes people who have no profit motive - Google is explicitly banning a nonthreatening group of developers.

Re: Your phone is about to stop being yours

#472

Post by _carbyau_ »

Ethee wrote: post #243
1vuio0pswjnm7 wrote: post #238

The author as well as commenters in this thread are claiming that people choose Android over iOS or vice versa One could argue this is false dichotomy These people are actually choosing a particular form factor with particular specifications that, more or less, only runs corporate mobile OS^1 instead of form factors that run non-corporate OS 1. Or some derivative of one that relies on the corporate distributor and re…

Right on the nose. And to make that problem worse we've integrated a fair share of our lives into these devices, for which there is only 2 terrible choices. I can't tell you how many friends have expressed to me that they'd love to try GrapheneOS or get out of the mobile ecosystem entirely, but all of them use mobile apps for banking which effectively locks them in. It's basically the devil's bargain because we've ad…

I agree with your post however further info on one point:

> but all of them use mobile apps for banking which effectively locks them in

Many banking apps work fine with GOS. But given banking and money is such an important part of our lives it is easy to see why people might be hesitant.

It doesn't guarantee future compatibility.... but linked below is a GOS [banking app] status list, crowdsourced info by country.

https://privsec.dev/posts/android/banking-applications-compa...

Re: Your phone is about to stop being yours

#473

Post by EarlKing »

notrealyme123 wrote: post #249
selectively wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google doesn't want millions of people to have every cent of their money stolen. This measure is about making it harder to pull off a specific type of scam that is plaguing South East Asia. No conspiracy. For actual information on the purpose of this change rather than conspiracies, I refer you to https://android-developers.googleblog.com/2026/03/android-de... Since the victims of these scams do not typically own a t…

With that reasoning every action would be justified to stop scammers. Google should capture all your calls and check if there could be scamming going on, right? The current malware situation at android store situation does not help to carry that point: > https://www.forbes.com/sites/daveywinder/2025/03/18/60-milli... > https://www.theregister.com/2025/08/26/apps_android_malware/ > https://www.androidheadlines.com/202…

> Google should capture all your calls and check if there could be scamming going on, right?

If you're dumb enough to own a Pixel then arguably they're doing something just as bad.

[1] https://www.reddit.com/r/GooglePixel/comments/1097qm0/manual...

Re: Your phone is about to stop being yours

#474

Post by Zak »

kube-system wrote: post #426
Zak wrote: post #373

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The entire point here is to prevent scam actors from using a false sense of urgency to defraud people. That is a serious vulnerability that needs to be addressed somehow Does it, and if it does, does it need to be addressed by an OS vendor creating a mechanism to ban developers for most users? I'm not convinced of the former, and I'm certain the latter is bad. I predict within ten years, we will see this used again…

What do you mean "ban developers for most users"? Most users get their apps through the play store, which will still exist here. Some users sideload apks, which is also a functionality that will still exist. > we will see this used against something that is not malware. See what exactly used against something that is not malware? The Play Store already has requirements other than "don't be malware". If you're talking…

Recently, both Apple and Google banned apps for reporting immigration raids in the USA from their respective stores. Android users can still trivially download such apps from other sources. After the verification requirement, nothing changes as long as the developer has a permission slip from Google. If they don't, users have a waiting period that could be a critical delay in an emergency like a crackdown by an oppressive government.

Google has stated that it will only withhold such permission from developers who distribute malware. I imagine they'll stick to that promise at first, but long-term I think they won't. Once it's possible for them to impose partial bans on developers, governments have every incentive to pressure them to do it.

Re: Your phone is about to stop being yours

#475

Post by CivBase »

unyttigfjelltol wrote: post #142
dethos wrote: post #75

To be sincere, they were never truly ours. A proof of that is they were able to come up with this, and you don't have a way to reject it. What we actually need are (open) alternatives, not to double down on Google's ecosystem and Google-controlled OS. We need to control the device we bought and be able to run whatever we wish on it. Just like we do on PCs.

Security is essential for an appliance like a smart phone. I fight the general purpose computing battle on my desktop with Linux, but on my phone I just need something that won’t be hacked.

Great for you. But what about the rest of us?

Re: Your phone is about to stop being yours

#476

Post by Zak »

criddell wrote: post #402
Zak wrote: post #368

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That requires having a PC to unlock basic functionality on your Android device, assuming the change we're talking about is still app installs. I don't think OS vendors should be expected to keep people from doing dangerous things. A warning label saying "hey that's dangerous because..." is reasonable, but anything more and they're trying to be my sysadmin against my will.

The sysadmin part is their value-add. One reason my current phone being an iPhone after being 100% Android for a decade are the better walls and nicer garden. These are sold as consumer devices and not general computers. It sounds like you want something different. They’re selling cars and you want a motorcycle.

Android was very open when it was released and for some time after. Installing APKs directly was easy. Most devices had unlocked or unlockable bootloaders. An Android phone treated its user much like a PC did.

More sysadmin-as-a-service type stuff is fine as long as the opt-out is easy. This isn't. I'm upset about the rug pull.

Re: Your phone is about to stop being yours

#477

Post by antonvs »

criddell wrote: post #61
NDlurker wrote: post #30

>Android's openness was never just a feature. It was the promise that distinguished it from iPhone. Millions chose Android for exactly that reason. Google is now revoking that promise unilaterally, on devices already in people's pockets, because they've decided they have enough market dominance and regulatory capture to get away with it. This is why I've stuck with Android for the past 15 years.

For you, is the openness of Android appealing as a matter of principle or does it enable you to do things you couldn't otherwise do?

Like not be tracked?

Re: Your phone is about to stop being yours

#478

Post by solarkraft »

brandonhorst wrote: post #176
fainpul wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even after Google puts this crap in place, you can still uplodad your own apps to your own Android devices, using ADB. Doing the same for iOS, using Xcode, costs you USD 100 or more (depending on country) per year . I'm in no way defending Google here, just pointing out you're going from bad to worse and think it's a good thing.

This is not true, running your code on your phone with Xcode has always been free.

What an insane song and dance to run software.

Re: Your phone is about to stop being yours

#479

Post by rTX5CMRXIfFG »

jech wrote: post #387
code_duck wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh yeah, odd. Anyway, I’m aware of alternate mainframe OSs but I’m not sure how common using one was. Other than OS2, alternate OSs for other systems were rather rare, though it is worth noting that they were not forbidden or blocked.

> I’m aware of alternate mainframe OSs but I’m not sure how common using one was. Extremely common at major universities and research centres. CTSS, ITS, TENEX, Multics, Unix and even VM/370 were all alternate operating at some point. > Other than OS2, alternate OSs for other systems were rather rare, You weren't there, were you? A lot of people replaced MS-DOS with DR-DOS before Microsoft deliberately broke it with…

> at major universities and research centres

So not common outside of ivory towers, no?

Re: Your phone is about to stop being yours

#480

Post by WestCoader »

Cider9986 wrote: post #171
pngwen wrote: post #68

This change has served me well! I have been a Mac OS X users for years who used an android phone. As soon as google announced their impending walled garden status, I went out and bought into the ios eco system. I have really been enjoying my iphone, ipad, and apple watch. You see, the only value that Android really offered me was the ability to run my own code on my own device. Since they are taking that away that ju…

GrapheneOS is the answer. Apple's software is really buggy compared to Android and Linux.

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